IM St. George Bike and Run Review

A training buddy and I just got back from St. George. He’s signed up for next year, and I’ll just say that I’m glad he’s doing it and not me.

Brief synopsis: Difficult bike, pacing will be vital, chip seal is awful. Run is all uphill or downhill, no shade, brutal.

Background: my 2nd year in the sport, 30-34 AG, <5:00 HIM’er (awful swimmer, good biker, acceptable runner); training partner is 45-49 AG, multiple Kona qualifier, did 10:30ish there last year, relatively strong all around. Neither of us is in peak shape, but not completely in couch potato mode either.

We began the first morning by driving out to the swim at the reservoir. It was a rather ambitious $10 charge just to get in the park (“…but we’re just going to drive in, take a look, and then turn around. Could you let us do that?” “Sure, after you pay $10…”) The setting is lovely, with striated red rock formations surrounded by desert and scrub brush. According to the race map, the swim course threads between a large rock island and the shore. This passage looked to be about 25 yards wide, so clearly the water level was way down. The park ranger said that the water should be at least 10-12 feet higher on race day. She expected the temperature to be about 67-68 degrees based on her experience.

There’s a large parking lot perfect for T1. However, spectators and athletes will probably need to be transported in, since it didn’t appear that there were a lot of alternative parking options.

We didn’t bike the first part of the course, which basically consists of an initial long but relatively shallow climb out of the reservoir. The course meanders through some side streets and eventually comes out onto a section of the run course. This will be an opportunity to find your pace and prepare for the two large loops.

The intersection of Bluff and Skyline/Snow Canyon will be a familiar site by the time you’re done with this course; you’ll see it seven times between the run and the bike.

The loop begins by winding through some housing developments. When we rode at 8:00 in the morning, it was about 75 degrees or so. When we rode it a few hours later, it was over 100. There’s very little shade anywhere on the course, with no tall buildings or overhanging trees. For us, the course really began with the right hand turn onto H91. This is all patched chip seal. I’ve found that this particular surface definitely robs me of speed. I also find myself experiencing more core fatigue… it’s harder to relax when you’re constantly vibrating and I tighten my core in order to provide a better “platform” for power application.

After bouncing your way along 91, you’ll veer right onto 3184 and start riding through a narrower canyon. There might be some shade provided by the canyon walls, but that’s dependent on sun angle (not sure what that will be in May) and the time of day, of course. When we rode it the first day at around noon, there was zero shade. The second day we rode it at 8:30ish, we got a little shade from the rocks. The road generally consists of rollers on an uphill bias, but there are perhaps four shorter (~:45 to 1:15 or so) hills in which I came out of aero.

We both had power meters (SRM for me, PT for him) and found that pacing is crucial. We went out way too hard the first day, and I simply burned too many matches on the first loop. The second day went much better as we tried to cap our power on these shorter hills. I would bet on a large % of AGers pushing too much on the first loop, being completely gassed on the second loop, and really suffering on the run.

The small town on Gunlock is on the course… not much to see or do there. If you’re going to ride the course, I didn’t see a store or place to refuel here.

The main climb on the loop is a switchback that occurs about 1/2 way through the entire loop. It’s about .8 mile, rising about 400 feet in that distance for an average grade of just over 9%. I think it peaks at around 16-17%, and this occurs near the top of the climb. It’s a relatively short but nasty little f’er.

This brings you in to the town of Veyo and a right onto H18 to head back into town. Veyo does have a small convenience/feed store to get some Gatorade/H20/etc. You’re now on top of a wide plateau, and we had some good headwinds during our first ride. There’s a slow gradual climb away from Veyo, as the road undulates gradually over the next 5 to 6 miles.

The first of the significant descents starts about 6.5 miles out of Veyo, as you approach Snow Canyon State park on your right. This continues for two miles, and levels out slightly with some slight climbs; you’re still able to stay in aero. There’s a brief respite from the chip seal with some nice smooth pavement (which will make you realize how much you’ve been vibrating and rattling around for the last 35 miles) but then, before you can say “ahhhhh…”, you’re back on the patched chip seal again.

The final major descent occurs after a few more miles as you wind your way down toward that Bluff/Snow Canyon intersection I mentioned earlier. It’s not a technical descent at all. Only the quality of the road surface, the small shoulder, and the numerous trucks with horse trailers screaming past us made us a little skittish. Nevertheless, we still hit almost 50 mph on the descent.

Then you grab the brakes and make a hard right to do it all over again.

The bike course will be very challenging because of the hills, road surface, and weather conditions. I found it difficult to get in a solid rhythm because of the rolling hills on the course, which usually don’t necessitate getting out of aero, but I found myself switching gears quite a bit. I believe a previous poster had mentioned the importance of a power meter, and I completely agree: pacing yourself up the hills and making sure you cap your power appropriately will pay big dividends. The chip seal just beats you up. When we rode the course the first day at noon, my SRM was over 100. I’d expect high temperatures especially for the second loop, with little to no shade. Coming out of Veyo, you could get hit with some serious winds.

Which brings us to the run…

It starts uphill immediately and there’s not much downhill to speak of until almost mile 5. You climb up Main to a little roundabout and veer left onto Diagonal. It’s a gradual climb to a right on 18, and then the out-and-back on 1250 up to the Elks Lodge is a short series of stepped hills.

On the second day, we ran this as a brick after one loop of the bike course and found ourselves affected by the altitude (~3200’) more than I would’ve thought. Coming from Seattle, we could definitely feel like we were more labored in our breathing and it was difficult to catch out breath. We slowed our pace significantly until we felt like it was under control.

Run up and down back to 18 to take a right at our infamous intersection again. Here’s where the run really gets, um, good. There’s an innocuous “8% grade” sign to let you know what’s up. This steeper section, beginning at just before mile 3, lasts for perhaps 1/3 mile or so. The road continues to climb, albeit at lesser gradients, until mile 5. Then it flattens out and starts to turn down.

This downhill section is about 5% which can really hammer some tired quads.

There’s a brief loop through a park which looks like it was added to simply add a little distance; we didn’t do the loop, since even though it’s off-road on a hard dirt path, it appears flat and tame.

The road continues to descend all the way to the turn around at 1000 E. We stopped at the Motel 6 for some water and ice. There is no other point along the run for refueling.

The run is going to be just brutal. No shade at all, except perhaps along Diagonal because of some small trees. The hills are difficult, and there’s maybe 500 yards of flat running over the loop. Those athletes who went out too hard on the bike are going to pay dearly on the run. Fueling and fluids are going to be crucial because of the heat.

Run course elevation change was ~635 ft of climbing and descending per loop, so double it for the full mary. The climb from the intersection to Veyo was a little over 1700 ft.

I think this might have an extraordinary DNF rate… I can’t wait to see what the average AGer is able to do out there.

Huh, when they first announced it I was temped to put it on my schedule in a couple years. After this review it isn’t quite so tempting anymore :slight_smile: Training here in Seattle in the spring for it would not be good timing.

Awesome report! Thanks for the great info- it was very useful.

Good report, almost as good as mine a while back. :slight_smile: Seriously though I’m glad that someone else is finally pointing out just how hard it will be to run this course if pacing on the bike is ignored. The run is going to be all about the bike. I was the “previous poster” who claimed that those without a power meter will be greatly disadvantaged - however, after going too hard myself at IMMOO a week ago on the bike WITH a power meter I will say that those who have power meters will need to pay attention and execute their plan well. I know that’s stating the obvious. I would also add that for the majority of AGers minimum equipment requirement is a Compact Crank - I really don’t know how the average Joe will be able to spin those climbs efficiently and conservatively without small gears.

Thanks for the Run G2. I know the area, course and terrain but haven’t actually run the Run yet.

Here’s what we can count on for IMSG:

  1. Wind, wind and more wind. There’s just no getting around it. So much so that I’d give the Swim a 50/50 chance of being canceled. It’s that bad this time of year for wind in SG.
  2. Lots of sun exposure on the bike.
  3. High DNF rate of first-timers.

And after all of this, I’m stoked for IMSG.

I used to work down there right below the gunlock res mist netting birds and I was really surprised when I heard the course. I would love to do this race if I wouldnt want a cross bike for the pavement. The pavement is just a quiltwork of patches and rough riding. The report sounds spot on. Sighting in the res is a little interesting as well.

Never learn to ride in rural Illinois. The roads are so nice compared to everywhere I have even been. Thanks Chicago for your tax dollars.

Thanks for the report, everyone one I read about IMSG ends with one prediction: pain. Lots of pain.

Anyone know if this lake is prone to the bad problems due to wind that they had in Utah?

screw that hard IM shit!
.

Unfortunately this lake and this time of year (early May) does not have a good history with the swim leg of triathlon. The past two years in a row the St. George triathlon (Oly distance in early May) has either had partial cancellation or full cancellation of the swim leg due to high winds and rough water.

Thanks for the reply.
Oh, great…just great. I sure hope it’s not a fiasco!

“Unfortunately this lake and this time of year (early May) does not have a good history with the swim leg of triathlon. The past two years in a row the St. George triathlon (Oly distance in early May) has either had partial cancellation or full cancellation of the swim leg due to high winds and rough water.”

I met a few different Utah residents at Boise 70.3 this year. Three I spoke to about St. George shook their head when asked about Iron Man there. No one said much positive … Lake, course, time of year, none of it sounds inviting. But hey, maybe it will be the new Silver Man!

Utah doesn’t not have a good history with swims and IM. I really do hope
that this works out well though.

-Jot

So what happens if they cancel the swim?

Here’s what I wrote back in May. Your review is pretty much what I saw, only you had the benefit of actually riding and running it. Frankly, I’m kind of excited. Once the story gets out on this one, it will be a real badge of courage to have just finshed this MoFo. It will be yet again another evil and dark Utah IM. Erraah!

From previous ST Forum positng:

Last Saturday I checked out St. George’s course. Here’s what I saw:

Swim: I did not get in the water, but drove out to the lake and looked at it. This is the weakest part of my report. Basically, I think the venue looks good. I assume (but don’t know) that the water depth is sufficiently deep to avoid the issues they had at Utah Lake for the IM Utah fiasco. The shallow depth up there caused extreme wave action and chop. Here it could be windy as it is VERY exposed, but my guess is it will be fine. Parking and specatator outlooks are good. One loop should be nice. It is likely to have some serious glare though, so bring tinted goggles.

Bike: I did not ride the course, which also weakens the value of my report, but I drove it all so here goes. The bike exit is excellent, as it is flat and on to nice pavement. This should be a good transition. Spectators might have to be bused to the start though, as it is just a two lane road in and out of the lake venue. Remember the lake is a fair distance from town and T2. The course turns on to Telegraph street/Hwy 9 after leaving the lake and this is a four lane road with good pavement. There is a climb along here maybe 3-4 miles in to the race. It’s not steep but steady and fairly long, maybe close to a mile. It would probably still be big ring for many. Everything, and I mean everything is totally exposed (no shade) on this course. So anything I saw could be a different situation if it’s windy. But, there is NO shade anywhere on the entire course. Every breath of wind will be felt. High winds could create a real monster.

After Telegraph you cut under I-15 and on to Buena Vista. This rolls with a few small climbs that could get your attention. Buena Vista becomes Red Hills Parkway and this gets you further in to town and on to the big loop. Red Hills is the outer portion of the Run course. There is a good hill going up Red Hills (more on that bad boy for the Run review later). Not long but pretty steep. After crossing Hwy 18/Bluff st. you are on to the big loop. This begins by working through the fringes of the town of St. George. The pavement is not great in a few locations. No pot holes, but some chip seal and generally not real smooth. You then get on to Hwy 91 and this becomes rather hilly and “rolly”. It looks like it might be fun to ride, but it’s not fast. The road surface here is chip seal. I think a little lower tire pressure is in order for this reason. It will be an annoying surface especially on the second loop. At County Rd. 3184 you veer right and continue up a valley. This is a very easy turn to miss by the way if you are going to go out and ride or drive this course. Look for the signs to Gunlock Reservoir. We blew right by it the first pass. Going up this valley is quite pretty and very rural. This should be really quiet out there as there are very few homes. On the Gunlock reservoir road there are numerous cattle guards. I did not count them, but at least 4 (per lap). Maybe 5-6. These are going to require a little caution. Launching bottles, flats etc. There are a lot of rolllers on this loop. You are almost never cruising flats, always either up or down. About 2/3 of the way in to the loop you have a good climb up a switchback. I think 39/25 for the average rider is going to be fine. But if you have any doubts or if it’s real windy a 39/27 would probably be a good option. I think I’m going to ride a 39/25. This climb brings you out of the valley you just rode and up on to a high plateau. This is the high point of the entire course (4,700’). Altitude might be an issue here, but probably not a killer even for sea level athletes. It is probably more of an issue on the Marathon course even though that is lower (3,200’ top). Shortly after this switchback climb, you turn on to Hwy 18 and off the chip seal. Hwy 18 is going to be a blast. It is almost all downhill back in to town and the second loop. It is good to excellent pavement, and fast. No dicey corners. There is nothing that will require any heavy braking. Good bike handlers, might not brake at all. Some of this descent back in to town is going to be fast. It could be ultra fast if it’s a tail wind. However, not dangerous at all as it’s a wide road and there should be plenty of room for everyone. There are some spectacular views from this Hwy. It should make the run back in to town on the second loop really refreshing and fun. And, get you ready for the Run. Ouch. More on that below.

After the second loop, you will drop back in to St. George town center on Diagonal St. and T2. Some of this will overlap the beginning of the run course.

Run: Are you sitting down? The run is going to be a bitch. It’s hilly, it’s exposed, it’s a double loop. Strong runners have the upper hand on this course. After exiting T2 you start back up Main st. which is uphill, not steep, but uphill, turn on to Diagonal, also a gradual off camber uphill. A mile or two out of T2 you have a short out and back on 1250 N. This won’t be fun as it is an uphill again. Back on to Hwy 18 and then the real fun begins with the the turn on to Red Hills Parkway (last part of the bike loop). This is steep and long. There is a highway sign on it that warns drivers of an 8% grade. There is no shade. The course goes out and back twice on Red Hills Parkway. The Parkway will probably be closed off to all traffic as it is both the bike and the run course. Hopefully they do that. All I can say is Red Hills Parkway is going to be etched in to your brain after this race. It climbs and rolls both out and back, some of it steeply. Coming down the last lap is going to pound the S#$T out of your quads. On the Parkway out and back there is also a short diversion in to Pioneer Park on a bike path (.4 miles). This might be a nice reprieve as it is very pretty in there. It also is not flat however. Overall, if you are in great run shape and have not blown your legs to pieces on the bike, this run is doable and while defintiely not fast, it is fair and honest. Just tough. Pace the bike or else.

Bottom line impressions:

The bike course is not that bad really. Not as bad as I had been led to believe. It will be comparable to IMLP or IM Canada in my opinion. Of course I did not ride it, so take that with a grain of salt. But driving it didn’t scare me off. It will give you back a lot on the Hwy 18 descent, so plan to work hard the first 1/2 or so of the loop and then recover and get nutrition etc. on the second part. The ride from the lake to the loop will be a good warm up. There will be spectators on this section, not too many on the big loop.

The bike is going to require intelligent pacing. If you blow your legs off on the bike you will pay dearly on the run. More so on this course than any other IM I’ve ever done, including Hawaii. Chip sealed surfaces are going to get annoying as I said. A good chunck of the big loop is on these type of roads.

I do not plan to run a disc. It would be a very dicey proposition to have one if it’s windy especially with the speeds you will hit on Hwy 18 (possibly over 50mph). I know some people will use one, but my general impression is I wouldn’t recommend it. There is plenty of climbing on the course, so factor that in as well. Run a little lower tire pressure. Cattle guards could blow an overinflated tire, not to mention comfort on chip sealed roads

The run is going to require that you have trained your quads to take eccentric contraction pounding. Long downhills are going to pound them good especialy after 112 miles on the bike. If you do not pace the ride, I guarantee you it will be a walk not a run. I am estimating this run course to be 10-15 minutes slower for a fit athlete, and possibly a walk for anyone undertrained or who poorly paced the bike. Hold back on the bike and I think you will be passing hundreds on the run. Hammer the bike beyond what is moderate at most for your fitness, and you will be annihilated on the run. Trust me.

St. George has the potential to be quite hot, so with it being so exposed the whole way, people are going to be toasted to a crisp if it’s normal weather for them. SPF 35+ for sure.

Spectators are going to have a bit of a challenge watching this event if they restrict the roads heavily. As far as where to stay, that’s still a good question to me. There does not appear to be much right near the the finish and T2. We stayed at Comfort Suites which is about 2 miles south of the finish on Bluff St. There are plenty of lodging options down there. There are a couple motels right on Red Hills Parkway which would put you right on the far end of the turn around on the run course, and the beginning of each bike loop. But, you would be a fair distance by foot to the finish. And, they might restrict your ability to get in and out of there. I think I’ll probably stay out at I-15 and Bluff st. Contact the Dixie Visitors bureau and discuss this with them. I hear they have alll the reservation request capability anyway.

Bring your own Espresso and Beer: This goes without saying in Utah. But St. George is small, and you will be dissapointed if you think you are going to find a triple extra foam non fat 2% Almond Machiato anywhere. I’m bringing some Rogue Dead Guy Ale for afterwards. I hear there are a couple pubs, but they will serve Utah strength Beer. Buyer beware.

One question I still have is why the RD’s didn’t put the run down on the Confluence Trail bike paths South of the town central. You could have a flattish run and be MUCH prettier as that bike path system is absolutely gorgeous along the river. I wonder if they just can’t get all the aid stations in there, or tie up the traffic to get to the bike path system. If you go out to check on the course take a run or a ride on this trail system, it’s incredible.

See you in '10!

Thanks for the report. Very helpful.

This is going to be my first IM so I am clearly going to have my work cut out for me. May need to make a recon trip in the coming months to get acquainted with the course.

This will be my first ironman distance race as well. After spending what I did last week to get a slot, I have no excuse now not to train my a$$ off for the next 7 months. It sounds like it will be absolutely necessary to do so.

What does happen if the swim is cancelled? Crazy endurance Duathlon?

At the failed IM Utah a few years ago they aborted the swim…I don’t think it actually “officially” started, but a lot started and were swimming (if I remember race reports correctly).
Once they got everyone back, they did a Bike-Run. They started eveyone at “x” seconds interval like a cycling Time Trial.

I wonder if this happens…do they still award Kona spots?

I’m very much looking forward to this one. The course, though difficult, can’t be as difficult as the Silverman – which has a swim that has made it seem like you’re on a treadmill at times, a bike with 9600 feet of gain that’s also fully exposed, and a hilly run course. (Silverman was my first full-distance tri in 2006 and a lot of people seem to pick that one as their first, as well.) I did the Olympic at SG as my first tri in May 2006 and then the Kokopeli in the fall of 2006 and the water was perfect (though my first swim was far from it). The sun is not bad in the morning that time of year (though it will be hot in the afternoon). They canceled the swim at the SG Tri in May this year but it was because the Kayak team, which did not take their kayaks off their cars and go in the water, said they couldn’t hold a line. (The RD co. now has a new Kayak team from CA.) I was out there doing some practice swims and it wasn’t nearly as nasty as Silverman has been the past three years or even IMCdA this year or two years ago. It just looked bad from shore because the wind was blowing. I doubt if the IM organizers will cancel the swim unless it’s truly dangerous, though they could give the option not to do the swim, like they did at IMCdA in 2007 (which I thought was an excellent option). The scenery is amazing, the bike course, though difficult, shouldn’t be so challenging that it can’t be done, and the run course will also be challenging but manageable if you train for hills and heat. The bike should not be all that hot, because the air should cool us. The run may be hot for athletes who do the run in the afternoon heat; but, for those athletes who like me finish in the dark, it shouldn’t be bad. The desert cools off very quickly that time of year. A key training goal, I think, should be getting acclimatized through the winter for a hot event, much like we had to do for IMAZ when it was run in April. It really just seems that the whole thing will be challenging but doable.

I failed to mention that the other two years (2006 & 2007) they had great weather that first weekend in May for the St. George Triathlon at Sand Hollow and there was no wind and it was pretty tame as far as the heat goes. Very pleasant conditions. So it is possible to have some good weather there at that time of year.

Some other posters have asked a bunch of “what if” questions about if it is nuking out there before the swim and what the race director would do. My observation is that Ironman takes canceling or shortening segments of the race a lot more seriously (meaning they are less likely to pull the trigger on changing something) than most other RDs. The past two years at St. George it was almost as if BBSC Endurance (the RDs for the race) were hoping to have a chance to cancel the swim. I heard that this last May they didn’t even get the kayaks off of the cars and put them in the water - they just bagged the swim without much deliberation. And I can see why because that’s a bigtime newbie event and my friend Chris Eborn died in 2006 at Sand Hollow at the end of his swim leg of the St. George tri (not weather related). And yeah, before Steve Fleck starts reading me my last rights I know that volunteer safety is a concern too and I respect that 100%.

In 2008 at the St. George tri they sent our first Oly wave out and then canceled the rest of the waves for the swim. I was in the first wave and the only complaint I have is that my time really sucked - for experienced swimmers the water conditions were totally navigable. A pain in the ass, yes, but not what I would call dangerous if you’ve done open water swimming before. No worse than swimming the Cove at La Jolla or any other ocean swim. The Bike was way more dangerous than the swim with very unpredictable wind gusts across the road against riders with deep dish wheels and sand blowing to the extent that visibility was greatly diminished.

Even with t he history, I don’t think Ironman is particularly prone to changing up a race due to weather. At CDA in 2007 they offered the “option” to do the duathlon.

The majority of the tris that have been canceled because of high winds and waves are not any worse than the majority of conditions other tris have experienced.
Realize the tris that have been canceled were sprints/Olympics with a very high amount of new swimmers etc. For you experienced open water swimmers I would hope they would be less likely to cancel the swim. I will be there in the float tube landing some nice bass, cheering you guys on. :slight_smile: