Howdy all. A question for the better runners out there (achilles ‘managers’ would help even more).
What running plan would work best for an Ironman, with the asterix of managing a tendancy for achilles tendonitis…?
Or alternatively, what running plan would work best for managing a tendancy for achilles tendonitis, with the asterix of “I am training for Ironman” thrown in…?!
The race is in late March, and I currently run three times per week - 30, 35 & 60 mins, gradually building all three.
Option 1) Three runs per week - building the current plan to two runs of 45-60 mins plus the long run of 2-2.30 on the weekend (which sometimes takes me two days to recover from).
Option 2) Five runs per week - four shorter runs (adding up to the same volume as the 2 moderate runs above), plus the long run on the weekend.
I am happy if there is a third/fourth/fifth option that anyone knows of… I just want to get to the start line & bloody well improve my IM marathon…
I’ve struggled with tendonitis in both my achilles and found three things really helped:
Icing like crazy after every run, and some bike rides.
Shortening my long runs, but upping the intensity.
Knowing when not to run.
I found that if I took a few days off running the inflammation would go down and I could start running again. As my volume increased the inflammation would develop to the point I had to stop. So I started to back off a bit, which meant running a few days, and then taking a couple off before things got bad.
Ultimately it’s about knowing your body, and running enough to get your training in without overdoing it and having to take time off. For me anything longer than 2 hours starts to cause me problems, and anything more frequent than 3 days in a row. So if I have a long run on Saturday I tend to go easy on Sunday and give myself Monday off of running, and some times have Tuesday as bike only, not running again until Wednesday and Thursday. If I instead take Sunday and Monday off I can run hard on Tuesday and Thursday then Saturday with a long run.
I also found I did well having lots of short transition runs off the bike that were usually 15-30min in length. Hope that helps.
Option 2) Five runs per week - four shorter runs (adding up to the same volume as the 2 moderate runs above), plus the long run on the weekend.
I would suggest trying this. High frequency running programs( more days of running/week with at, first shorter runs), when done, tends to build better overall durability. This is what you want to achieve.
Whatever you do, get that shit sorted out asap with a chiro and doctor.
I took a month off running before my IM with visits to the chiro and copious icing, and everything felt fine… until the marathon. It’s a long way to walk in pain.
Howdy all. A question for the better runners out there (achilles ‘managers’ would help even more).
What running plan would work best for an Ironman, with the asterix of managing a tendancy for achilles tendonitis…?
Or alternatively, what running plan would work best for managing a tendancy for achilles tendonitis, with the asterix of “I am training for Ironman” thrown in…?!
The race is in late March, and I currently run three times per week - 30, 35 & 60 mins, gradually building all three.
Option 1) Three runs per week - building the current plan to two runs of 45-60 mins plus the long run of 2-2.30 on the weekend (which sometimes takes me two days to recover from).
Option 2) Five runs per week - four shorter runs (adding up to the same volume as the 2 moderate runs above), plus the long run on the weekend.
I am happy if there is a third/fourth/fifth option that anyone knows of… I just want to get to the start line & bloody well improve my IM marathon…
I would be spreading my run volume out over several runs and I would not emphasize the long run so much. The long run is overrated and risky in your situation. It should be no more than 25% of your total running volume. (see Barry P’s stuff in my signature line below)
The other thing I would do is get REALLY fit on the bike and then pace the bike conservatively.
As one poster above stated, get that sorted out before you start any buildup for next year. If you attack this the right way, you just might find there is an underlying reason for your chronic tendonitis or tight calf, etc. If you have a great PT in your area and van get it covered by your insurance, go to them for some strengthening routines.
I am not one of the better runners out there but I have suffered the achilles. I wouldn’t do much running if you are still experiencing pain after any run. However, if you can run with no pain then this is what have helped me:
Run 5-6 times per week (see BarryP plan). Try to shoot for 6 as much as you can. I have done my best to run 6-days per week. Short run can be very short 15-20 min. Just get out and run.
If you do a long run one week (2-2.5 hours), make the long run the week after that shorter (1-1.5 hour) to allow your body to recover.
Don’t worry about speed work until you build up and become comfortable with your desired weekly volume.
as an inadvertent expert on Achilles woes, I’d say the current consensus is for eccentric calf-muscle training.
This means exercises that lengthen the muscle, rather than constrict it. It’s the opposite of calf raises, call it calf lowers. Full details below.
Also note these exercises work well if the problem is in the tendon itself. There’s a variant called insertional Achilles tendinitis with the pain appearing lower in the heel, where the tendon attaches to the heelbone. This doesn’t respond well to the calf lowers. Instead the protocol involves lifting into the demi-pointe position on flat ground with both legs, then lowering the recalcitrant heel alone. This is what I’m trying now…
Also try a night splint. These are primarily used for plantar fasciitis, but have been helpful for me. The Strassburg Sock is a less-clunky version of night splints.
Full details, lightly rewritten from the sportsinjurybulletin below:
Stand on a step, with the front edge of the step touching the soles about one-third of the way from the toes to the heel (so that the heels hover in mid-air): body position upright, legs straight, and all body weight supported by the forefeet. Use the good calf muscle (the one not associated with a hurting achilles) to lift the body upward and plantar flex the ankles, bringing the heels up while the forefeet remain in contact with the step.
Remove the healthy leg and foot from contact with the step, the unhealthy leg remains straight while slowly lowering the heel of the unsound leg to below the level of the step. This is the eccentric loading.
Three sets of 15 straight-leg reps per workout, plus three sets of 15 reps performed with the unhealthy leg bent at the knee. Twice a day, seven days a week, for a total of 12 weeks.
See: http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/achilles-tendinitis.html http://sweatscience.runnersworld.com/2012/07/rebooting-platelet-rich-plasma-and-minimalist-running/
Check you bike fit…you might have to much movement in you lateral ankles
Can you expand on this ? What should I be looking for in terms of fit ? My achilles are much soarer the day after hard biking.
For the OP. I have been struggling with achilles problems for over a year. At one point when I was doing high frequency/shorter distance (Dev’s 100run challenge) things were much better. Short runs, 5 min post run stretches, 5 min post run drops and at one point the achilles problems were completely gone. Maybe a coincidence.
Check you bike fit…you might have to much movement in you lateral ankles
Can you expand on this ? What should I be looking for in terms of fit ? My achilles are much soarer the day after hard biking.
For the OP. I have been struggling with achilles problems for over a year. At one point when I was doing high frequency/shorter distance (Dev’s 100run challenge) things were much better. Short runs, 5 min post run stretches, 5 min post run drops and at one point the achilles problems were completely gone. Maybe a coincidence.
It can be quite obvious when watching someone else ride. You see the heel kick out laterally at some point of the pedal stroke.
I think your first question shouldn’t have anything to do with which running plan. It should be trying to understand the underlying cause for your achilles issue. For example, it could be biomechanical, could be muscle imbalance or weakness, could be wrong running shoes, could be corrected by orthotics or maybe not, could be corrected by specific strength training or maybe not, or a combination of multiple things.
You need to see either a PT or a chiro who has extensive biomechanic expertise to take a look at your run and identify the cause of your achilles issues.
Otherwise it won’t really matter how many runs or how many days a week. You need to address the underlying issue.
Meanwhile, water running is a good way to avoid further damage to the inflamed achilles while you line up a PT or chiro appointment.
Howdy all. A question for the better runners out there (achilles ‘managers’ would help even more).
What running plan would work best for an Ironman, with the asterix of managing a tendancy for achilles tendonitis…?
Or alternatively, what running plan would work best for managing a tendancy for achilles tendonitis, with the asterix of “I am training for Ironman” thrown in…?!
The race is in late March, and I currently run three times per week - 30, 35 & 60 mins, gradually building all three.
Option 1) Three runs per week - building the current plan to two runs of 45-60 mins plus the long run of 2-2.30 on the weekend (which sometimes takes me two days to recover from).
Option 2) Five runs per week - four shorter runs (adding up to the same volume as the 2 moderate runs above), plus the long run on the weekend.
I am happy if there is a third/fourth/fifth option that anyone knows of… I just want to get to the start line & bloody well improve my IM marathon…
I would be spreading my run volume out over several runs and I would not emphasize the long run so much. The long run is overrated and risky in your situation. It should be no more than 25% of your total running volume. (see Barry P’s stuff in my signature line below)
The other thing I would do is get REALLY fit on the bike and then pace the bike conservatively.
This sounds a little like the situation I was in about 7-8 months out from my IM… nursing a sore achilles and having a hard time getting my run mileage up to where I thought it should be. Good news in the end is I that ended up having what I thought was a pretty good IM run considering that it’s always my weakest leg of the 3 anyway and I’d never run that far before. So looking back from that, I’d boil it all down into 4 things I think were the keys:
Actively working on the achilles therapy… besides the usual ice & occasional anti-inflammatory measures, I really felt like I got great results from sleeping with a night split to hold my foot cocked at 90* overnight (i.e., achilles extended) instead of having my toes tend to get pulled down by the bedding (shortening the achilles). And if I had a little extra time to watch TV with the wife before going to sleep, I’d do it with my bum heel propped up on either a cold pack or hot water bottle alternating every 10-15min before going to sleep with the splint. I don’t have any professional medical advice to back it up, but I really sensed this helped to trigger more healing while elongated instead of having it ‘rebuild’ shorter and then get overstretched again next time I tried working it. Before, it was most tender when I first put weight on it getting out of bed in the morning, and this regimen made it go away in a matter of a couple weeks after having nursed it and suspended my running intermittently for at least 4-6 weeks prior. Kept doing it several weeks after the pain subsided just to stay on the safe side.
as MP said, the BarryP plan was like magic for me. More overall weekly volume by running more often, but less pushing into the danger zone with the one long run. The hard part was getting up early to fit in more runs before work, even though they were mostly only 30-45 min, but I was gradually able to roughly double my weekly volume. It still wasn’t much (maybe 40ish) and I never did get my long run up to where I had originally hoped before reaching taper time (maxed out at about 14 instead of at least 16-18) but I felt it was more important to err on the low side rather than risk overdoing it and losing even more mileage to a late setback. Where I really felt the payoff was that my short/easy “filler” runs went from maybe 20-25 min up to 30-40, and my ‘medium’ run went from 40-45min to around an hour (whereas I’d have called anything over an hour a ‘long’ run before). Running actually got to feeling ‘normal’ instead of always feeling like ‘work’ or some sort of struggle (once I got going).
my initial achilles problems seemed to crop up after doing a bunch of incresased trail running. I’d originally gravitated to more trails to ease the pavement pounding on my knees (which seemed to work as planned) but the side effect was extra achilles strain from flexing harder to push off on soft surfaces and/or steeper inclines. The happy medium ended up being the local HS track: rubberized surface for a bit more cush than pavement, but firm enough and level so as not to force more heel strain on the push-off. Rigging a clip-style iPod to a running hat was a huge step forward to make doing laps in the dark at 530am mentally tolerable.
as a few others have said, the best way to run better in an IM is to make the bike easier, and since biking didn’t seem to bother the injury I really built that up so by race time I already had several harder rides under my belt. I did make a slight accomodation by moving my cleats rearward and lowering my saddle accordingly so that my foot stayed ‘flatter’ trhough the pedal stroke instead of flexing more at the ankle, but that seemed more pre-emptive in my mind than corrective since it had felt fine on the bike all along; maybe it helped, but at least it didn’t cause any other issues that I could tell.
OK, long-winded enough (so much for the 4-point format keeping it simple). Good luck, just stay positive that it’s doable.
Interesting thread. I am grappling with the same challenge right now - building up for (my first) IM and managing my problematic achilles.
I am using eccentric loading, Strassburg sock, icing and calf rolling - all of which have worked for me in the past (when I am diligent about it). Plus, from a training perspective planning to use water running when / if needed as well as focus on getting super fit on the bike and going into IM light on running.
I was also planning to use a combination of walking & running through the build phase, but likely right up to the race, err… event, in early March. The idea is to spend the time on my feet (building up to 2:00) but as combination of running and walking and slowly reduce the frequency and duration of the walking intervals. I have found it beneficial to always include some 1-2 min walking intervals in my running to ‘manage’ my achilles, especially early in the run. But I’m pretty much self-taught, so would definitely defer to the more experienced on this one!
The one thing I have not seen mentioned re: eccentric calf drops is to do them with a weighted backpack. If you are just using your body weight, you are wasting your time.
Get a backpack, throw a 5 lbs weight in it. 3x15 as described above. Slowly add weight as you gain strength. I was up to 30+ lbs when my Achilles was at its worst (2010).
I had been trying to use the BarryP plan this fall, but my right Achilles flared up 2 weeks ago on a 2.5 mile run. Back to square one…
Manged a mile today on the treadmill, relatively pain-free this evening. Am hoping to do IMKY next Aug…we’ll see.
