IM Cananda 30th August 09 - With the big hills involved is it worth getting a larger cassette say a 27??? also what are the downhills like? speed and canver on the road etc. Wheels, etc
also for the run, is it flat? are there any things to bare in mind etc
Depends how strong of a cyclist you are. I did the race with a 12/25, and I’m an average cyclist (rode 6:09 at IMC), but if I did it again, I’d use a 12/27. There are MANY threads on ST about the course if you just do a search here on ST.
Run course is rolling hills with some flat sections. Not an easy run course at all, but not the toughest either.
Here is what I have seen last few years. I have been at the race last three years…doing it once 07, IMCDA08 and Silverman08 and will be doing it this year too.
Generally people say the bike is no where near as hard as they thought it would be. BUT when you ask about the run many people say It was such a great race but they have no idea why they died on the run, they PBed on the bike though.
Do you need a 27? Most people would benifit from the opportunity of spinning up Mclean, Richter and the top of Yellow lake. I sat on Mclean and there were a lot of 60 cadences with most out of the saddle.
Cruise relaxed (many ruin their race in the first 40 k) to the Husky station/bottom of Richter -11k triple step climb…be carefull on the seven sisters- small mountains or rollers depending where you are from…never under estimate the out and back…yellow lake is great for support but there is more to it than people think. High speed down hills from richter nothing technical just fast…the down hill after twin lakes down towards Pen is technical enough that you should ride it if you can. Deep dish and wheel covers seem to be the ticket for the fastest, but watch the side winds.
Winds can be huge. Last year it was up the climbs and course records fell…the other way just sucks. Winds can pick up through the day and they change the water temp for the swim.One loop course around a lot of different terrain can lead to different weather systems too, but it is amazing.
Not flat but gradual climbs out of town…flat along the lake and real hills in and out of OK falls and the half mark.
Local wisdom is “IMC is all about the run”
Have fun!
Depends how strong of a cyclist you are. I did the race with a 12/25, and I’m an average cyclist (rode 6:09 at IMC), but if I did it again, I’d use a 12/27. There are MANY threads on ST about the course if you just do a search here on ST.
Run course is rolling hills with some flat sections. Not an easy run course at all, but not the toughest either.
Do you know how the IMC run course compares to the Vineman (Full) run course which is also what I’d consider rolling hills? Thanks.
Fred, I haven’t done Vineman, so I can’t compare, and oddly, the IMC site doesn’t have a profile of the run course, only a map, which was the case when I did it in 2007. Not sure why they’ve never posted that!
gear ratio selection is all based upon speed. the faster you go the less you need in the back. what is your assumed (be honest) pace that you will cover the course and are you better in the flat or on a climb
Hi Mark.
It’s great to see a pro/coach actually making a distiction between talent levels when offering advice.Here on ST(and I guess in the general tri world)there seems to be a lot free advice that does not take into account the unique situation of the individual asking the questions.
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What about versus IMLP? How does it compare?
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if i weigh 180 and am going 20 miles an hour… i will be using the same gear ratio as someone who is 90 lbs… and going 20 miles an hour (assuming same wheel sizes)
or am i wrong?
I’d grab the 27 for the ability to spin up the hills, as had been mentioned. The course description you got is dead on, particularly the out and back to special needs (which is actually at mile 70, no 56). For some reason it is mentally really tough because it goes on forever, seemingly, and is windy. Come down off of Yellow Lake can also get very windy depending on what time of day you are going to be riding it. The scariest ride of my life was coming down off of Yellow Lake. It was mid-afternoon and the wind was so bad it was blowing me across the road, I was barely able to hang on. Coming into town the sand off the lake was blowing sideways and gave me a good facial. This was a training ride, not the race itself.
I highly suggest riding the course if you can beforehand. It is a strategic planning course for sure. It is easy to crank to the Husky because you can tuck down into aero and pedal. Once you turn right at the Husky to go up Richter it all changes.
You’ve gotten great course specific advice. As far as comparison to LP, I did that in '05 and only rode that course once, on race day. It was frikkin hard. It was my first IM and I suffered. Other than that, the details are pretty hazy. I can do a better job compairing to CdA if you need the info.
EDIT: Forgot to add: Run is hard. Hills where you don’t want them to be but it is a really nice course.
I’ve done Canada twice. I’d say a 39/27 is enough to have a bail out gear in case the wind is blowing down Richter Pass (the first big climb) and/or Yellow Lake. I think it pays to go conservative.
In my opinion the key to this course is conserving energy on the way out on the bike. There is usually a tail wind headed out of town until you get to the turn onto the climb for Richter. Once you start going up Richter you are poointing back toward town and then there tends to be a prevailing headwind. It means the trip back can be tough since I’d say the second half of the bike is much tougher than the first. Keep your cards close to your chest in the first three hours on the bike.
The good news is the summit of Yellow Lake comes at about 97 miles on the bike. That means the last 15 miles are largely a net elevation loss into town. If you play your cards right, you’ll get to T2 with about as fresh a set of legs anyone can ever expect after 112 miles. It’s the oppositew of Lake Placid, and one reason I have avoided that venue- at Lake Placid there is a tough climb *up to *the transition area so you get there on tired legs. No rest going into T2. for a lot of the trip back into Penticton at IMC you will be a passenger.
The run plays out perfectly for tired legs in my opinion: Gradual climb going out of town- something to push against. Once you hit the turnaround at about 13 miles you simply say to yourself, “Run down this hill to the finish line”. For the next 13 miles into town it is a net elevation loss. Now, there are a couple nasty little surprises on the run going out and back, but they only hurt for a few minutes and they’ll keep you awake.
It’s a beautiful and fast course, really my all time favorite. You have the potential to have a very fast race there if you play it smart.
At the top of this article is the race plan I sketched out for my IMC campaign:
What about versus IMLP? How does it compare?
If it’s not a big wind day at IMC, I think it is a little faster than IMLP. That is a big IF. IMLP can be “stealth hard” as you tend to underestimate the rolling hilly nature of it on the first loop. The final climb in to town can really bugger you if you blow it out too hard the first lap. I also found it harder at IMLP to get in to a rythmn on the bike. For me it has proven to be 5 or 10 minutes slower than IMC.
This will be my 5th yr doing it. Here is some of the best advice I’ve read on IMC from a guy who lives/trains there.** **It came from Jonnyo last yr, under the below mentioned topic. I’m sure he won’t mind me reposting it!!! Printed it off and I followed his advise for the bike and rode 5:09 (rode a 12-25, felt more then enough), was all set to follow the game plan for the run. Felt fantastic off the bike, never felt better on the run for about 4 miles, then a kidney stone had other ideas, but thats IM racing, so I’m back for revenge this yr. I can’t say enough how bang on he is for the bike. Tough to hold yourself back in for those first few hours on the bike, but if you do, you’ll be passing everyone that didn’t. Good luck and see you out there.
Darren
**Re: Ironman Canada Vets–some ?s for you **In reply to] ****
OK, recovering nicely from IM austria and getting ready for the big show up in BC. I have some questions for you vets out there–I’d appreciate any help that flows my way!
What is the bike like? Any thing to look out for? Any tips on energy budget/pacing strategy? How about the bike set-up–full tri OK? How technical are the descents?
Bike front wheel choice: 404/880/1080?
what to expect from the weather man?
Run–how tough?
Swim–any start tips–I’m shooting for a 66-68 minute swim?
How does the bike course compare to IMWI?
Any other thing I should know to get me to Kona?
Thanks and good Karma to you for your help!!!
rc
you need to ride it easy to richter, hold back and climb steady richter pass…ride easy on the rollers and then, you can start putting pressure on the pedal at the 100km mark. Doing so before that will cost you big time and will make you suffer…
1080 or 808… see on the day as the downhill are sometimes windy and high speed…the 1080 might be a bit much
Weather can be 40 degres crazy heat or 17 degres cold and rainy… Penticton are everything at this time of the year but a safe bet is for 30 degres, windy and sunny.
Run is hilly and killer on the legs because of the steep uphill and downhill… it s a difficulte and not so fast marathon
Start as far as you can on the outside on the west side…swim on the outside until the turn around boat at 1.9km
dont know
The race dosnt begin before you get in the out and back on the bike course (100km mark) to ride hard or spend any energy or make big effort before that is STUPIDIDTY … BE PATIENT… safe it for the run,
well, the run!!! it start with a 1 mile out and back on the lakefront road…1000s of spectator will be there to cheer you one…it s flat and you will be one mostly flat and small roller until mile 9 where the fun beggin, there is a few hills…all very step, and 3-400m long…they are killer on the legs… then, about 1 miles downhill to the turn around and you need to go back up that 1 mile and it s gonna get step again… so, the section between mile 9 and 17 is where things often fall apart… you need to be strong mentaly. you will also hit a gradual 1 mile uphill at mile 20ish and it s a BITCH! once up, you are on main street with 1000s of spectator with you until the end.
overall, on the run, start slow…EVEN in front of the crowd…just go easy… it suppose to be a easy pace… as you get to main street 3-4miles into the run, slowly get into your crusing speed but it still as to be a easy pace… The first half of the run should be a waiting game… you save for the trip back where everyone crumble and if you are still moving on the last 10miles… you will make tons of time on everyone.
ironman canada like many other ironman is a patience and waiting game… only 3 or 4% of the field will pace the race well and come back home without slowing down too much…the 96% reminder just went too hard too early or didint have the humility and courage to hold back!
oh… if you feel great on the last 2 miles of the run in front of the crowd on lakeshore… it is a good moment to turn it on and empty the tank… you dont want to leave anything on the course!!!
Jonathan Caron
Professional Triathlete and Coach
jonnyoworld.blogspot
#6
IMC is easier
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Darren and everyone else who has posted on this thread!!! A massive thankyou, some awesome advice and thanks for putting in so much detail. I will be in Penticton 9 days before the race to recce the course. In vehicle with bike in the back to ride the downhills!! and test some of the hils out. Thanks again for the run advice, not too much info on the website and these top tips I would say are going to ensure I have a good race.
Thanks guys!!! brilliant stuff!!
I will be in penticton 9 days before the race, would it be a good idea tobike the up hill sections a week before? The plan is to recce the bike course in our SUV with bike in the back, when we come to Richter, yellow lake etc we will jump out and climb the hills. Is this advisable a week before the race?
I haven’t done IMC yet (racing this year), but I’m thinking/hoping that it’s more like a 15-20 minute difference, rather than 5-10. This comes from eyeballing the course record, top 10 times in history, last year’s Kona winners times. etc. Unscientific, but I just eyeballed it since I was too lazy to do a more rigorous analysis.
I looked at my AG (40-44) from last year and think I’ll need to go 9:55 for Kona. I’m a reasonably good climber, and reasonably good runner, and poor swimmer (but I’m working on it).
I went 10:32 at IMLP on the heels of a 1:13 swim (ouch). I think I can go 1:05 on the swim next year with a lot of work. So…I need to pick up 29 minutes with a combo of improved fitness, better position/faster equipment and faster course. A bit of field testing has show me that I believe I will pick up 9-10 minutes from my new bike/position. So I need 19 minutes from the course and/or fitness gains (FTP is currently 20 watts higher than same times last year, and 5 points higher than peak last year). I was hoping that the course would give me the majority of that.
Sorry for the parial thread hijack, but I think the answers (particularly from someone like Jonnyo who has ridden the course countless times) will be back to OPs question.
satmark
no problem mate!!! cheers
everyone else, hills a week before the race or not???
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