they put on a 105 12-27 (it was spec’d with ultegra). I pointed it out, and he said it was ultegra. A mechanic noticed the 105 box taped to the receipt and said the customer was right. Then the manager told me it would be $15 extra because 12-27 cassettes cost more than 12-25 because they are bigger (he lied, any store will sell them for the same price).
I was totally off my rocker: Shimano does make a 12-27 105 cassette, however I still contend there is a price difference between some of the different sizes.
Just because any store amortizes the cost to offer one price, that doesn’t mean the bigger cassettes don’t (sometimes) cost more.
Yes, I have seen that dynamic that you have spoken of - the insiders, the club members, those in the inner circle getting that top level customer service, but those on the outside not. Not a good thing - they may be missing out on business. Every customer should get treated the same in my book - all with 5 star service.
I worked in a LBS for a short period, two years ago between other things. A man and a women came in the store one day who had never been there before. They were going with 6 members of their family on a cycling trip to italy in a months time. They needed cycling kit for all 6 members of the family They had not done very much cycling, but they had heard that and been advised that getting some cycling specific clothing was important. I asked lots of questions and got a lot of information BEFORE I started telling then about what they should be looking for and what the shop had for them. It was a busy day in the store but I took the time with them to walk them them through everything even while dealing with a other customers on the side. They ended up spending close to $3,000 on apperal that day! After the bike trip to Italy, the husband had so fallen in love with cycling that he came back in the store and bought a $6,000 road bike!
they put on a 105 12-27 (it was spec’d with ultegra). I pointed it out, and he said it was ultegra. A mechanic noticed the 105 box taped to the receipt and said the customer was right. Then the manager told me it would be $15 extra because 12-27 cassettes cost more than 12-25 because they are bigger (he lied, any store will sell them for the same price).
I may be totally off my rocker here, but Shimano doesn’t make a 12-27 105 cassette, and there is a price difference between some of the different sizes.
Just because any store amortizes the cost to offer one price, that doesn’t mean the bigger cassettes don’t (sometimes) cost more.
Can you show me an published example of any HG-7x or 105 level 12-27 cassette?
*What will you do when you need a tire TODAY only to find there is no LBS around…at all. *
**
That’s why you keep a supply of spares. At least two.
LBS pays local and state taxes, internet companies don’t.
**
No, I pay the taxes that get passed along by the LBS. And I’d rather the gov’ment have less money, not more. F em both.
LBS employees most likely live local, spend local. They could be YOUR next customer, but sadly they moved on.*
**
Yeah, same with the secretary typing pool, the telephone operators who were connecting my phone calls, and those people working the checkout scanners before you could scan yourself out, and the milk man. And the network TV journalist.
Of course, rather than ‘disapearing,’ they could have instead found something more productive rather than bitch about economies of scale and advancing technology.
They have waved fees when I was broke
**
Who is running your LBS? Jimmy Stewart?
Good points.
Plus, all the bike shops around here keep piss-poor hours, so I often have to go w/o anyway.
One time I needed something fast, and they said they could get it in in about a week (too late). I went online and had it in 2 days. Could’ve got it faster but didn’t want to pay overnight shipping.
I’ve never understood the almost religious zeal with which people will support a business. I wonder if these people only shop at locally owned grocery & retail shops, buy their cars from “American” companies, dine out only at local establishments, etc…
I work in the bookselling industry, I’m not a bookseller though. Local bike and local book stores are very similar. The compete against chains and the internet for sales. The one big difference they have over their competitors is - service. If you’re not going to provide service above and beyond what someone can find at the big box stores or walmart or amazon, you better hope your customers don’t have access to the internet or a car to get out.
Service will win and keep customers. Bike stores have two chances to provide service, sales and repairs. If you don’t distinguish yourself you’re lost. Owners/managers have to remember riding a bike is fun, talking to customers about bikes should be fun (for you and them). These two things have to be CONSTANTLY pushed on employees.
good luck finding a good LBS and don’t forget your other LBS, local book store and try to support them before they’re gone.
I’ve never understood the almost religious zeal with which people will support a business.
Perhaps it has something to do with wanting to deal with a real person - a really, nice real person is even better. Indeed, you can do all of your shopping online and exist in this face-less, human-less world. I like interacting with people. I face this everytime I fly now when I check in. I can either wait a few minutes and talk to a real person at the check in counter or use one of the automated kiosks. My first choice - deal with the real person. Now, sometime that real person is not so nice - like the ornery Delta Ticket agent that we had to deal with last fall when coming back from IMFL. Perversly if you look at the big picture and keep your cool, there can be advantages to this. I wrote to Delta Customer Service when we did get home and Delta sent us $300 worth of ticket credits!!
****I face this everytime I fly now when I check in. I can either wait a few minutes and talk to a real person at the check in counter or use one of the automated kiosks. My first choice - deal with the real person.
Admit it Fleck - you’re just trying to sweet talk them into taking your bike box for free…
Screw the LBS, why is everyone so bent on overpaying for everything? I started in tri a few years back and bought 90% of everything online and saved thousands by time I was done. Every LBS should EARN my business. I don’t do business there because I love the sport and they (hopefully) love the sport too. That’s like going back to a crappy restaurant time after time and overpaying for crappy food because the owner is a nice guy.
That means good service and reasonable prices. I’m all about buying my new stuff at the LBS because I like buying and touching stuff in person and not waiting or paying for shipping charges. Plus I appreciate their knowledge and advice. Only 1 LBS I can think of has ever earned my business and respect.
I went to one of the local places around here to look at a new helmet. Was like 129.99 at the LBS and on Nashbar for like 49.99. I went back to the LBS and said “Hey, I really like this helmet but it’s like $80 cheaper online, is there anything you guys can do to bring the price down? Doesn’t have to be $50, but something like $90 range would be fair.” Then I proceed to get bitched out for like 5 minutes on how dare I would come into their shop yadda yadda yadda.
I mean, they don’t need to MATCH online pricing, but get somewhat close please. Every LBS in my area is grossly overpriced.
I have purchased a good bit of items at the LBS but the more I learn about tri, biking and running… the more I buy online. I can’t afford to give away so much of my money just to support the LBS. I really want to, but I can’t justify the vast differences in price.
For example, I recently needed to replace my shoes. I was going to get the same pair. I bought the 1st pair from the local running store at $125 plus tax. 6 months later, I bought the same pair for $85, no tax and no shipping and I did not have to go out of my way to get to the store. I would go to the store if the price was closer but saving almost $50 on a $125 purchase is way to much to give up.
Of course, rather than ‘disapearing,’ they could have instead found something more productive rather than bitch about economies of scale and advancing technology.
They didn’t disappear, and they didn’t bitch. They moved.
And now some neighbourhood has worse street maintainance, less good take out food, and a whole host of other things that are supported by having a diverse blend of not-particularly profitable, low margin but just-about-livable economic ventures going on.
The problem with your sweeping inclusion of other “jobs that time forgot” reminds me of Carl Sagan’s line: “They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.” Yes, as economies change over time, some activities that used to be relevant and in demand become less so or even disappear. But that doesn’t mean that everything that becomes less commonplace is less valued, less useful or less efficient. Some economic changes are due to changing technology, some are due to changing decisions and relationships by the economically powerful.
**Admit it Fleck - you’re just trying to sweet talk them into taking your bike box for free… **
Khai,
I have been known to charm them into this in the past. Alas, flying is too much by the book these days that I have more or less given up on that. The only time that you seem to get a break is when you actually have to go through some bad customer service and some hassle and then they try and make you feel good after the fact - hence the $300 from Delta! The problem is that many customers go ballistic right then and there on the spot, make a huge scene and they will get nothing cause it’s THEM that have been the real jerks when all is said and done.
Me - “Hi there, I took my bike here to be serviced a couple of years ago and I asked for and paid for a Dura Ace bottom bracket.”
Shop - " Unn Hunnh"
Me - “well, the damdest thing happened. I took my bike to that other store down the block to be serviced yesterday and they tell me they took a 105 out.”
Shop - “Unnn hunnnh”
Me - “well, I’d like you to give me back the $50 difference.”
Shop - “You took your bike down the street instead of here? and you want me to give you $50? GET THE F**K OUTA MY SHOP!”
Of course if you weren’t on Slowtwitch you could just check in for your flight online, allowing you the benefit of choosing your own seat and arriving at the airport a bit later. As a result, you’d have extra time to stop and visit the bikeshop on the way
I like my LBS a lot and have spent a lot of money there. That said, some employees have come and gone and the attitude has changed a bit. I don’t expect to be treated like royalty, but reasonable customer service should be expected by all…and especially a loyal customer.
I went it to get some black Fizik bar tape. They didn’t have any. I asked if they might have some in the back.
“Nope, whenever black comes in it always sells out right away.”
Ok I am thinking, must have just missed it. “Will you be getting some more in?”
“No, it’s not on our order, you’d have to special order it.” It always sells out right away, but they don’t find it necessary to order more and they want me to special order it?
Ok “How long will it take?” I ask.
“Probably a week or two.” Starting to get annoyed I say OK.
Now he has my account open in the computer so should be able to see what I have bought recently which is a fair amount of stuff. “How do you want to leave a deposit?” A deposit for bar tape? A little suprised I say “I guess cash.”
I got home and thought about it for a bit, ordered online with free shipping, called the LBS to cancel my order, went in and got my $5 and had the bar tape in the mail 2 days later.
Without customer service, why am I going to go there?
I like my LBS a lot and have spent a lot of money there. That said, some employees have come and gone and the attitude has changed a bit. I don’t expect to be treated like royalty, but reasonable customer service should be expected by all…and especially a loyal customer.
I went it to get some black Fizik bar tape. They didn’t have any. I asked if they might have some in the back.
“Nope, whenever black comes in it always sells out right away.”
Ok I am thinking, must have just missed it. “Will you be getting some more in?”
“No, it’s not on our order, you’d have to special order it.” It always sells out right away, but they don’t find it necessary to order more and they want me to special order it?
Ok “How long will it take?” I ask.
“Probably a week or two.” Starting to get annoyed I say OK.
Now he has my account open in the computer so should be able to see what I have bought recently which is a fair amount of stuff. “How do you want to leave a deposit?” A deposit for bar tape? A little suprised I say “I guess cash.”
I got home and thought about it for a bit, ordered online with free shipping, called the LBS to cancel my order, went in and got my $5 and had the bar tape in the mail 2 days later.
Without customer service, why am I going to go there?
And you probably spent $5 in gas too.
I would really prefer to support the LBS but there are just too many issues for 90% of my purchases.
And now some neighbourhood has worse street maintainance, less good take out food, and a whole host of other things that are supported by having a diverse blend of not-particularly profitable, low margin but just-about-livable economic ventures going on.
I am guessing from your spelling that you are originally from some socialist cesspool. It’s your EngSoc-style government that makes ‘neighborhoods’ a blend of low-rent dollar stores and fried chicken joints.
But that doesn’t mean that everything that becomes less commonplace is less valued, less useful or less efficient.
No - in a free economy that is exactly what it means.
Some economic changes are due to changing technology, some are due to changing decisions and relationships by the economically powerful.
Yes, me, the economically powerful, refusing to pay $9.00 for a bike bottle that destroyed your fantasy people’s utopia.
Don’t have loyalty to a LBS. Have loyalty to a LBS guy. Always have that guy either do the work or direct it, and always have that be the only guy you talk to when you call the shop and the only guy operating the register when you check out.
Corporations don’t have loyalty to anyone and you don’t need to have loyalty to them. Loyalty is a human attribute. Build a relationship with someone in particular and if they move to a new shop, move with them.
And now some neighbourhood has worse street maintainance, less good take out food, and a whole host of other things that are supported by having a diverse blend of not-particularly profitable, low margin but just-about-livable economic ventures going on.
I am guessing from your spelling that you are originally from some socialist cesspool. It’s your EngSoc-style government that makes ‘neighborhoods’ a blend of low-rent dollar stores and fried chicken joints.
But that doesn’t mean that everything that becomes less commonplace is less valued, less useful or less efficient.
No - in a free economy that is exactly what it means.
Some economic changes are due to changing technology, some are due to changing decisions and relationships by the economically powerful.
Yes, me, the economically powerful, refusing to pay $9.00 for a bike bottle that destroyed your fantasy people’s utopia.
LOL....I just had to see that repeated again. Damn man, I can't help but to normally butt heads with you, but this is classic!
You seem to be a particular caustic individual, calling me a retard in another thread and now continuing on with irrelevant ad hominems. You don’t know anything about me or my relationship to the technological transformations you’ve apparently decided are the inevitable march of progress. Slowtwitch is not the place to discuss political/economic theory, so I’ll leave it right there, other than noting that my use of the phrase “the economically powerful” was deliberately vague rather than an allusion to some marxian analysis.
I don’t know too much about you but your software seems pretty nice. My brother’s in the biz and I sent him the link. He said it’s not quiet there for him yet because it lacks MIDI sequencing, doesn’t support the VST plugin format, and doesn’t support his new hardware’s i/o interface. However, he said he might check it out for mastering or mixing down in since he isn’t happy with the mix algorithm he gets with what he is using now - something called Ableton. Anyway, he said he might check it out and has potential.
