"Depends on the tire you’re using, what you’re doing, and the conditions of the course you’re doing it on. Anyone think inflation PSI should be variable depending on rider weight?? "
Here’s an analogy - skiers have wax specialists who put very precise and differing concoctions on the athletes’ skis depending on snow, weather, and other conditions to achieve optimum speed. This is probably true of tires and roads as well if one were to really test this rigorously.
But short of wanting to quantify this data for every potential road condition and regluing different tubulars for each race, we’re stuck trying to find our own best compromise solutions.
Sure it’s a different issue, but not totally different. Certainly you’d agree that there’s a point where a harder compound in a bicycle tire would not be faster than a compound is less hard. (Someone mentioned steel tires) Cyclists need tires that grip too, also ones that absorb small bumps and imperfections in thr road. But you’re right, we don’t need to worry about our horsepower overcoming the tires grip.
These oversimplifications drive people nuts. See the previous posts that imply that all clinchers are faster than all tubulars. (Or at least are oversimplified to the point of saying that.)
“we’re stuck trying to find our own best compromise solutions”
I agree, and I have a suggested approach. Go out and ride a lot. Try as many different tires as is reasonable for you given your budget. Try different pressures too. Choose the tire you’re most comfortable with given your experience. One that you have experienced is relatively flat resistant, one that “feels” comfortable and “feels” fast. Race with that tire. You’ll be far better off riding a tire that is comfortable and that you have confidence in rather than one some anonymous (or not) dude on a web forum said was the fastest. The worst thing is being in a race and second guessing yourself or your gear.
I did a both a 20 mile out and back head to head and 1 mile repeats head to head. Powermeter with watts. No wind on the 20 milers and the 1 miles had side winds that switched on me. The 1 mile repeats were harder to interpret - but still the same trend. Tufos/glued/Zipp 909’s vs. clincher Eastons Circuit. Same PSI. There was a dramatic difference between the 2 - much/much/much more than I’d ever thought possible based on my preconceived notions. Was it blind? no. It won’t get published but I’m very convinced that something is wrong…and thats a real world test. Good enough for me - whether you all believe or not is moot - after all I’m racing you all. Tires? Tape? Something else? I’m trying to find out…
Hey, for what it’s worth, I put some Vittoria Corsas on for this weekend’s race and to be honest, they FELT way better than the Tufos. Was I faster?? Who knows - but I felt faster and that’s what’s important.
So are we going to see you around or are you still jetsetting for work?
Yes I’m back and only 10 pounds heavier… I tipped the scales at 212.5 last week and was most disappointed. Gotta get back to the low 190s.
I still have a lot of traveling but am trying to get to the Velodrome at least once a week. Hopefully I’ll be around for the Tuesday night races and Thursday workouts starting in a week or two. That way I can spank you on my new ride, my newfound weight gives me momentum!!
I just changed my rear tire s33 special tufo. I got lots of miles on it and no flats. NO flats NO flats The threads were showing . I remember 1970s tubbies. Crap I would get a flat a week. I put on a s22 training tire. Still very round and not lumpey at the presta valve. Thanks you all for not buying tufo tires. It will keep the cost down for me.
I simply can’t believe you would think that the difference in tires moved you from Packfill in a 1,2 race to being “able to contribute” to the pacmaking.
Sitting at the back at 50 kph vs. sitting on the front at that speed must be a difference of about 200 watts, I don’t think the Tufos cost you 200 watts.
Don’t you think it’s funny that people will make a buying decision based on little more than the bike shop guy saying, “These are good. We sell lots of them.” That is – they buy something with absolutely, positively zero data to back up the decision.
Yet when confronted with even the most modestly reliable data to suggest that perhaps another tire would be materially faster, they demand nothing less than a multi-million dollar testing protocol that has survived scrutiny by the FDA, NASA and the New England Journal of Medicine (and even then, they will wave off the results).
With NO DATA WHATSOEVER – people buy stuff.
With SOME DATA – they will continue to buy what they bought before. Most humans are congenitally unable to admit that they, perhaps, made anything less than the perfect decision the first time around.
It puzzles the snot out of me.
Don’t even get me started on bike aerodynamics advice…I sat through a presentation at the Lake Placid expo by a fit “expert” who told the audience that the aerodynamics benefits of race wheels only apply at 30+ mph – that even the pros were wasting their money. He insisted that, since many wheels are tested at 30 mph in the tunnel, then that is the only speed at which they work.
It would seem to be a big leap to say that the people who are critical of the Tufo experimentalist’s are completely uncritical and turn into blind sheep when they talk to a kid working at a bike shop. The critics are probably quite a bit skeptical when they are listening to bike store employees.
The one thing about the Tufo experiment is that, like all “studies” done on Tri products, there are huge holes in the methodology. That should make any one a critic of just about any “study” of tri products. Look at the Cytomax or Acclerade ads; one (I can’t remember which) says it will increase endurance by 28%! That is one heck of a claim, for $2 a serving! The misleading, not-reproducable-in-the-real-world statistics go through most of the aero studies and the technique and training expert reccomendations.
So, given how blatant the problems are with the vendors “research” (which should be/is sold as rigorous" how on earth can you really take the results of a driveway roll down test as gospel, particularly one on a chat room where everything - and everone - is “marginal”.
I will say that the tests appears to have some interesting points. And it certainly brings up a question as to why no one has done basic tire to tire testing, which seems pretty easy to do. The Conti article is certainly interesting re: sizes. That is stuff that the community can use.
Like a great deal of stuff on this site that is debated ad nausem, we are very likley spliting hairs here. It’s like the question of which wheel is faster the top end ZIPP or HED, that I very often see asked. Despite what people or studies say, for just about everyone, the performance is the same! Who cares.
I am no tire expert or guru, but it seesm to be generally recognized that the gold standard in regularly available tubular tires are the Continental Competition GP’s. Many professional cyclists use these tires and many professional triathletes who have access to other tires, pay good money to ride on Continental Competition GP’s. This is anectdotal, but it does say something.
For the record, I road a 5:00 flat IM split on Conti GP’s one year and another year, I rode exactly the same on TUFO Jet’s!
Though I do think race wheels are faster - I think the difference is way over-estimated. How much do you think a set of Hed Alps vs. Velomax Circuit would save you per hour? (Clincher tires - all Michelins) Or even a set of 909’s? Lets say roughly 22 mph +/- 2 mph - flat course - little wind…
TUFO’s rock, TUFO’s rock, TUFO’s rock, TUFO’s roll like rocks
Yes! Yes! Ermmm…all guys in the M30-34 AG…RUN, DON’T WALK, down to your friendly neighborhood internet reseller and buy up every Tufo S3 lite you can find. Your competitors are riding Tufos today, are you?
Heck, with a little (lot) more fundage I’d love to subsidize every guy in my AG out there - maybe contribute $5 per Tufo they buy! Just shows you how much I love all my fellow competitors. Sniff.
Do I need to have all the weight high or can it be low? Can I use sand ? I was thinking of putting it on the chain and the small bits of space in my hubs and bb. Or in the tires lots of space in their. Thanks for the great tire testing info. I feel so fast now . Look out world !!
One of the most interesting things in that conti article is the discussion on the theoretical “flat proof” tire. If you read the description of this theoretical tire, it sounds almost identical to a Tufo. And the problems that Conti lists with said theoretical tire are EXACTLY the problems that we are seeing with the Tufos. The Tufos MUST be slower, the very way the are constructed dictates that. How much slower, that is currently unanswerable, and will remain so until a repeatable, controlled study (i.e. using lab equipment) is done.
However, the Tufos really are almost flat proof, and that can be a big savings, especially for people who are uncomfortable changing a flat. Dugasts may be the fastest, but they are also significantly more likely to flat than a Tufo, so which one will actually get you across the line first is a whole different matter.
