OK…so after reading all of the threads on this site, I’m going to pull the Tufo Jet Elites off my race wheels and switch to another tubular (the main reason is that I had them taped with the regular tape and I’ve been convinced that this is unsafe in the heat - I can’t get the tape residue off and thus need to replace the tires).
So which tire does anyone feel is the fastest, best feeling tubular…that is also available in 650. Biketiresdirect.com had a good price on the Conti Competitions. Anyone out that have any other preferences? Also, what’s the popular consensus 19mm on front and back, or 19 on the front and 22 on the rear?
I don’t understand all of this bandwagon bashing of Tufo’s based on rather sketchy evidence. As useful as this website may be sometimes, there is way too much herd mentality going on that people fall prey to.
I rode a 59:46 on Tufo Jet Specials (glued, no tape) yesterday at Philly Tri. As much as I’d like to think my equipment was holding me back, the reality is that it is my engine that’s the limitor.
Hey Chris, congrats! You were the winner, right? I was a bike marshall, you went by so fast, I didn’t have time to clap or cheer! One of the other marshalls told me you were complaining that the two guys behind you were drafting. When they went by, they were close to each other, but didn’t appear to be drafting. But you were so far in front that I don’t think it mattered!
5 different tests using totally different methods and every time the Tufo was a significant loser, while ALL other tires being clincher or tubular where insignificantly different. How is that sketchy? Even the most stalwart defender of good experimental design should start wondering why Tufo’s keep coming up the loser, time after time after time. What are the odds? If there was even one reference that Tufo might not be the odd man out then you might have a point.
Saying “I went fast on Tufo’s” is meaningless unless you have some reference to what you did or could have done on another tire. Isn’t that pretty obvious?
Thanks! It was one of those days where everything clicked. Great course on the bike which suited my hill-climbing strengths.
Overall, it was pretty clean where I was on the bike and I was pleasantly surprised how spread out people were on the second loop and how well everyone did staying to the right. The only “incident” I had was coming down from Lemon Hill and around the Art Museum on the second lap when some guy tried to tuck in on my rear wheel. But it just served to force me to pick up the pace to try to drop him, so it was the mental push I needed to finish off the bike leg strong.
The crowds around the transition area and finish were great! It was cool to ride through a big crowd of cheering people in the middle of the bike leg.
I did not mean to present my “data” as valid quantitative evidence, so I apologize if my simple statement was misleading in that regard.
But none (and I emphasize the word “none”) of the tests that have been presented on this website pass any sort of scientific rigor themselves. Being a Ph.D. research scientist myself, nothing that has presented here can be called anything stronger than supposition or speculation.
The bottom line is that the experimentalist in each case already knew what answer they wanted. None of the “experiments” even tried to compare apples to apples in the sense of testing tubulars to tubulars on the same wheelset!
I love bike product tests as much as the next guy - but you have to do it right where you isolate all of the other variables. This has yet to be even attempted.
The bottom line is that the experimentalist in each case already knew what answer they wanted.
“Wanted”? I WANTED to be faster on my new super expensive race wheels (and tires). What I got was no improvement and sometimes slower times despite putting out significantly bigger watts. Race after race, training ride after training ride. Those problems have gone away with different tires.
I raced SD International yesterday on Vittoria Corsa after having replaced my Tufo S33 during the week. I can tell you that the Vittoria’s definitely have a better ‘feel’ and I definitely felt faster on them than the Tufos.
Is that quantitative? NO, but it’s worth it mentally to me to feel faster.
The only thing I’m not happy about is my glue job on the front wheel. Vittoria’s have a latex covering on the tire that I couldn’t remove. I’m hoping the tire is on the rime well enough, but I do hear the glue ‘squishing’ as the tire goes around the rim from the glue on the edge of rim coming into contact with the tire and then releasing. (I’m running a Hed Stinger Front) Anyone else experienced this?
Refresh my memory. You were using S3 Lite’s or something like that?
Based on my own experience, I didn’t much care for any of the S-series tires, Lite or non-Lite. The ride didn’t “feel” as nice, but that’s a personal subjective judgement and not worth throwing a whole brand under the train for. I have been happy with the Jet Specials since switching to those in early 2004.
I think the key is to find the right tire for you and not pass judgement on a whole product line based on one model.
If you’re happy with your new choice of brand and tire, that’s great. Triathlon can be more mental than physical, so if your mind isn’t worrying about your tires on race day, that’s all that really matters.
Finally someone states the facts that none of the test’s posted on this forum about TUFO’s really have any merit what so ever.
Until there is money funded and this test is done on computer’s using machines who can spin the same wheel, glued the same way, under the same exact air temperature, humidity, surface temp, etc. etc. etc… All the naysayers of TUFO’s are just one persons speculation and/or PERSONAL experience and should not be used by others as “credible” tests to discredit TUFO’s
PS- for the record I am not saying TUFO’s are either faster or slower then other tubulars.
Actually, one of the roll-down tests did test a Vittoria tire against the Tufo on the same wheelset.
I understand your comment about experimental design, but not the comment about the tester knowing what answer they wanted. How would that effect a rolldown test or a test using power?
Again, even if the experimental design was terrible, which it wasn’t (not good though either), why do the Tufo’s keep scoring so low, while ALL other tires score similarly.
Why ignore the possibility that Tufo’s are so signficantly different that even bad experimental design can’t mask the difference? In the absence of ANY other evidence to the contrary why wouldn’t someone at least be open to the possibility?
Take off your scientist hat for minute (I was Ph.D. research scientist too…) and put on your philosophical hat for a minute. Why are the results the way they are? Explore the options. Draw some conclusions.
It would be a failure of a scientist in my opinion to simply ignore all data that is not rigorous.
Keep in mind I would be the happiest person out there to see data that suggest Tufos are NOT signficantly different. I’ve got 2 race wheel setups with Tufo’s (mine and my wife’s) and an Ironman coming up. Where is this data? Anything? Anything at all?
The more I study the problem in my own experience, the more I realize that this stuff matters less than you think. The most important consideration is not to flat - so don’t buy superlight tires or cheap tires with a propensity to flat (i.e. Conti Sprinters).
Not the answer you were looking for, but one should try to put things in perspective here…
“Until there is money funded and this test is done on computer’s using machines who can spin the same wheel, glued the same way, under the same exact air temperature, humidity, surface temp, etc. etc. etc…”
That is just plain silly. I guarantee you do not take that rigorous of a stance on almost any other buying decision you make. Why does it have to a million dollar test for it to be right?
“All the naysayers of TUFO’s are just one persons speculation and/or PERSONAL experience and should not be used by others as “credible” tests to discredit TUFO’s”
Actually what I have seen so far is each naysayer has gone and conducted their own test before making a decision. At what point does the next guy get to stop testing and start believing the consistency of the earlier results.
I can’t offer any tests that prove empiracally either good or bad performance results with Tufo. My experience with both Tubular Clinchers and the S3 lite tubulars has not been bad but it has not been overly good either when it comes to the performance category. I will say that I really like the tubular glue tape for its ease of use with Tufo or other tubulars that have a non-coated, cotton base tape (if the tubular has a good coat of latex, might avoid the tape). Ironically a team mate of mine swears by them and currently he uses them for road racing and time trials (he does not do tri). At 5’6" and 125 pounds on a bad day, and has done quite well through the spring earning an upgrade from Cat 4 to Cat 3 as well as currently holding the lead for the bike clubs monthly 10K time trial competition. Myself on the other hand, at 6’ and 170 lbs. I used S-3 lite tubular clinchers on a carbon front and Renn disk rear for the last year and at the first club time trial of the year, I was about 45-seconds slower but a variety of issues such as fatigue, conditioning, etc. could have effected that time. I could not make the TT for May but this month, I switched the tires on my TT bikes race wheels from the tubular clinchers to a set of Veloflex Corsa clinchers using the same inflation. and was within 6-seconds of taking the lead with similar weather conditions as my last effort.
I also used Tufo tubulars to race the local Wednesday night crit (Pro 1-2) and all this month, despite what I felt was good fitness I was having a really hard time maintaining tempo even at the back of the pack using the Tufo’s. After reading all the threads on Tufo, the final strike came when I opted to use my Tufo tubulars for a Saturday race team training ride hat I normally ride on Hutchinson clinchers. Again there could have been a variety of factors that could have influenced the performance but during that last ride on Tufo’s, I found that my HR was higher when compared to the same ride route on Hutchinson clinchers. I ordered Veloflex Corsa and Pave clinchers as well as Veloflex Carbon tubulars and this past week, I raced the crit on Veloflex Paves. Although I was dreading the race at the start, I ended up having a blast as instead of being pac fill/fodder trying to hang on at the back, I worked my way to the front throughout the course of the race and was able to contribute to the effort of the other team members. Sure a lot of things could have impacted the difference in performance which feel more confident about being able to sustain and improve over the course of the next few weeks. Sure all this is subjective as last year I was very happy with Tufo and spoke highly of them when asked. Unfortunately in this instance, despite the durability and utility - you can still ride the tubular clinchers when they are flat - afforded by Tufo’s, based on personal experience for now I am racing on Veloflex.