One of the newest “innovations” among aero wheels is the “stability” in crosswinds.
They say that the new 808FC handles almost as well as the old 404 (non FC) in crosswinds/side-winds, even though it’s deeper.
(they even say that the 404FC handles like a box rim, but has the 404-depth speed).
Since Zipp’s marketing and hype are more thought out than Hed’s, I am assuming (though to assume is to make an ass of u and me) or inferring that their new offerings with SCT (stability control technology) make their wheels easier to handle… so if I’m used to a Hed Jet 6 (older version), would the new Jet 9 be as easy to handle?
(on a side note, do all Het Jet C2 versions already have the SCT, or there’s a timeline when SCT was introduced? FWIW, I have either a 2009 or 2010 Jet 6 C2 front).
So, for FRONT wheels, if I’m used to the handling (in crosswinds) of the old Zipp 404 non-FC or the old Jet 6, and with the advances of Firecrest and Hed’s SCT, would going for an 808FC or new Hed Jet 9… do you think I would have any problems handling them in crosswinds?
I had a similar discussion with a Zipp rep (so probably not very objective!) at a recent “Power-Night” at my LBS. He essentially stated that there is no longer a need to go 808 rear, 404 front with the firecrests, you may as well go 808 for both. So yes, on paper, you are probably right in thinking that the firecrest 808 handles like a non-firecrest 404 and you shouldn’t have a problem. Personally I would get some advice from those who have experience with both in real-life conditions though and aren’t trying to sell them!!
As for the HEDs with SCT, I believe that was introduced in the 2011 model year, but it has proven difficult to get a straight answer from HED as to exactly when and which models, just search for Tom A.'s posts on that subject. The 2011 Jet 9’s that competitive cyclist has on sale are SCT (as confirmed by e-mail), but if you go to the Trisports.com page for the same wheel, there is no mention of SCT in the description.
So, according to the marketing you shouldn’t have any problems handling the deeper FC/SCT front wheel.
really? when i talked to HED they said the Competitive cyclist deal was the C2 rimshape, but not the broader nose of the fairing for 2012… and the reason they offered a closeout deal was because the rim shapes were changing for 2012?
JET rim shapes definitely changed for 2012 (I have one)
I wouldn’t expect a 2011 Jet to feature the stability improvements of Firecrest, the 2012 might, the shape is similar.
Hmmmm, that is what I originally suspected, but the e-mail response from competitive cyclist (not HED) was that it does include the SCT shape. As mentioned earlier though, trisports.com’s description does not mention SCT, which is where my confusion came from when researching the competitive cyclist sale. Moot point for me because I didn’t order anyway!
It would only make sense that the sale item is to clear inventory of the “older” technology. Perhaps it is due to the fact that the 2012 models are only available in the Flamme Rouge build, the 2011’s may be SCT, but are definitely not Flamme Rouge. Were there updates to the SCT rimshape for 2012 over 2011?
Seems that we are none the wiser!! Although I would be tempted to take HED’s word for it, since they are shipping them to competitive cyclist.
For the same amount of money would you rather have a used (good condition) Zipp 404 non-fc front and sub 9 disc or the new Jet 9’s from Competitive Cyclist with disc cover? Wheels will be used only for races and the used ones are from a friend and I have seen them up close in person.
If the CC Jets were SCT I’d maybe lean that way, but since they aren’t am I wrong for thinking the used 404/sub 9 might be too good a deal to pass up, especially considering I’d be putting a disc cover (mostly permanently) on the Jet anyway?
jet 9s and a disc cover
you don’t need SCT to ride a deep front wheel, you just need to ride the deep front wheel =)
.
Hey Jack, I find of have the same question…808 Rear and Stinger Front (I know, old stuff and mixed set up…). I’m 136-140 lbs racing season and have been able to handle the old Stinger front half decently in cross winds. So you guys are saying that I can go to 808 FC front and be fine in cross winds. Any advantage going to 808 FC front and old 1080 rear (can get a deal on 1080) ?
Thanks Jack, I’m not too worried about the handling and wasn’t specifically looking for a 404 front, but it was a deal that found me and the sub9 was what got my attention. Just to clarify, you think the Jet 9’s are a better deal because they are new or because Jet 9 C2’s are faster than non FC 404 or both?
I remember you were trying to trade your wife’s 9 for a 6 a while back. Did that happen and if so how does she like it? I’m 145, and the deepest wheel I’ve ridden is a SRAM 60 but had no problems with it in a very windy 70.3 NOLA last year.
stringer 6 or 9 front?
I’ve never tried the firecrest so I can’t say if the new 808 feeling like the old 404 in crosswinds is totally true. I know Rapp thinks so.
The old Stinger 6 front. I figure the equivalent of an old 404 so the claim that an 808 FC handles like an old 404 would likely apply to the old Stinger front.
Also, interested in knowing how the 808 FC front handles on technical descents compared to the 404. Does the additional rotating weight make it harder to turn in hairpin descents (the same reason why it should be more stable in crosswinds)? In the back of my mind, I have dream to go back to IM France and destroy the bike course and don’t really want to spend on 2 sets of wheels…maybe just go with the 404 FC front for that reason.
I was able to turn with a jet 9 clincher at Savageman, I think you will be ok. I’ve never noticed any difference descending/turning
I don’t want to be like Jan Ullrich and end up in a stream on the side of mountain…come to think of it, Ironman France has no steams beside the mountain descents…just cliffs with 1000 foot drops.
I had jet 9 C2 versions with and without SCT. IMO the SCT version does handle better in buffeting crosswinds.
It was less twitchy when semi’s when blowing by you in either direction, you were coming out of sheltered areas, it was gusty or on high speed descents.
As for the cornering aspect, which I don’t remember if someone was asking about the Jet’s or the Zipps, they corner the same as any other wheel you’d normally train on. I never gave them a thought even when diving through turns at 30+mph.
So, according to the marketing you shouldn’t have any problems handling the deeper FC/SCT front wheel.
You see, that’s why I’m asking in the forum – hopefully from actual users. Marketing of both Zipp and Hed say what you just said… but that’s according to the marketing.
I’m actually a fan of Hed, but sometimes, it’s hard to get answers from them. I know they like building fast wheels, but sometimes you get confused which is which. Or they upgrade something mid-year without telling anyone, and instead of selling it as, say Jet 9 2010 version 2, they just sell 'em side by side. So you don’t know if you’re getting the latest and greatest (so you may get version 1 for the same retail price).
Anyway, back to my original question: you see, I keep reading that deeper is more aero, but if you have to expend more energy (upper body energy) trying to keep it still in crosswinds, then, well, you expend more energy (and the run might suffer or whatever), which means it may have been better to just go with a not-as-deep wheel. BUT, if the new Firecrest and/or Hed SCT “innovations” are considered, and the 808FC handles as well as the old 404, or the new Jet 9 with SCT handles as well as the old non-SCT-tuned Jet 6, *AND one is used to the handling of the old 404/Jet 6, *then wouldn’t it make sense to go deeper on the newer wheels?
BTW, thanks for the replies… it is leaning me towards getting the newer versions in the deeper variety (either Zipp 808FC or Hed Jet 9 2012 with SCT – paired with a rear disc or wheel with disc cover). Am just waiting for someone to contradict me so I can remain confused. 