If foot arches help absorb the impact from running, how are people able to run with flat feet?

Triathlon Forum
1

I have collapsed arches and it’s the first thing that doctors and podiatrists point out when I come with an injury. I may have to go with custom orthotics but I’m experimenting now with OTC orthotics and stability/motion control shoes. The question I have is - how are flat footed people able to run pain free if the arch of a foot helps absorb some of the impact of running? I can tell right now that I have nothing to absorb the impact when my foot hits the ground. I can feel it all the way up to my knees. One of the sports docs I’ve seen was amazed that I can even run the mileage that I run on them. From what I’ve read about foot arches, they provide two primary roles. They help absorb the initial impact when the foot hits the ground and they assist in transferring force during toe off. It seems that orthotics don’t really do anything as far the role of arches but limit movement to prevent overpronation.

Can anyone provide some insight into this??

2

Same story here. On advice of my pt, I picked up some Powerstep inserts. I take out the insoles that come with my running shoes and replace them with the Powersteps.

I built up tolerance over a few days, wearing them for 2 hours just walking around, then 4, then all day. Started running with them 20 minutes, then 40… Now I use them in all my shoes (work, bike, hang out, running) and it feels strange when I don’t have them.

I am using sturdy shoes for the bulk of my training (Brooks Adrenaline) and I race in something lighter BUT with arch support AND the Powersteps (Saucony Mirage).

Good luck

3

Also, strengthening quads, hammies and glutes will help. The flat foot can result in some instability when you get tired. The knee can track both inside and outside the proper path. Strengthening the run muscles can help.

4

Just because your static arch height is classified as “flat” does not mean that you have excessive motion at the ankle.

Dynamically, you may have an inflexible foot with a low arch that actually responds like someone who would be classified as having a “high” arch.

Short of someone video taping your form, and factoring in the static arch with the dynamic movement, I wouldn’t get too caught up in someone being surprised when you have flat feet. This is a misrepresentation of research and practical application if any professional would say you automatically need arch support with a rx orthotic without factoring in other variables (such as stride rate, stride length, hip flexion, knee flexion, pelvic drop, etc). All of these provide an important details.

This is especially true with those who misidentify their initial footstrike location (majority of people are incorrect), say they’ve adopted a midfoot strike, or think that heel striking is wrong (was in this camp once).

Without factoring in the other variables, if you go to a health professional with a run injury, many will often say 1) stop running 2) you run too much, or 3) here is an orthotic.

Also- the arch plays a role, but they do not absorb as much initial impact as much as the major muscles that correspond with the ankle, knee, and hip. Nor assist with transferring force during toe off (when people try to force a toe off to “run faster” this actually does more harm than good).

Current research also leaning toward a good quality, rigid insole (such as a superfeet) will often address many of the issues a rx ortho will, and pure motion control shoes (such as the brooks beast) may do more harm than good.

My suggestion would be to find someone who is very knowledgeable in run biomechanics to give some practical feedback with an HD camera and the correct software (never trust someone who specializes in HD eyeball cameras…). Be forewarned though- if someone starts to go down the lane of “you must get to 180spm” or “midfoot strike only”…find a new “expert.”

5

Rob,

thanks for the write-up. I did have a running gait analysis done earlier this year after a few months of recuperating from posterior tibial tendonosis. The cameras were placed on the side and back. I was able to see that I consistantly pronated (measured at 13%) with one foot (the uninjured one). I was wearing a neutral shoe and superfeet insoles at the time. Recently, I’ve been having some soreness on that same foot and decided to take a look at the sole of the shoe. With less than 200 miles on them, a big chunk of the medial heel side had worn away. It’s interesting that it only appears on one side.

I just picked up a pair of Asics foundations and plan on give them a try. I think the problem with the superfeet is that the heel cup is not deep enough for me and the medial flange doesn’t provide enough support. Why do you say motion control shoes may provide more harm than good? Also, does it make any sense of to have orthotics to correct overpronation if you’re running in neutral shoes? I usually run in Skechers Ultra which have a supersoft midsole but no stability support.

6

Just some insight that may help you, I went to a podiatrist after starting back running 3 years ago and was recommended orthotics because my foot arches were too “high”.
I used them for 1 year and after I felt I no longer needed them. Now I even run once a week barefoot to keep a good feeling and keep a good running form. The rest is done with a 0 drop flat shoe
I think sometime doctors are fast to recommend orthotics, of course they make money from those, in my case I didn’t needed them, I just needed gradual work load and my body adapted.
Just my 2cents i’m not a doctor but believe that nature is well done :wink:

7

13% of what value? Are they saying that you, without any shoe, had a categorized over pronation (what exact degree?), and that with your shoes at the time you had no change/increased pronation?

Also, cushioned, stability, etc are relative only to the manufacturer, and different materials provide different properties. Example- previous Asics Kayano’s did not have a rubber insert into the gel midsole. Now, the rubber insert in the plastic midsole actually creates more pronation as opposed to limits it.

Doing your gait analysis with a neutral shoe and superfeet insoles was not the correct way to make a recommendation. It should have been with a barefoot run, followed by a run in your preferred shoes to see what the shoe was doing. Then, add in the superfeet insoles.

Tibial tendonitis is one of those conditions that often warrants an insert/orthotic. But, the insert/ortho won’t perform if the type of cushioning in the shoe is not performing the correct way.

For example, the NB 980 fresh foam…definitely NOT a pure-bred cushioned shoe. In fact, it often acts more like a performance stamility/mild stability shoe.

I say MC shoes may do more harm than good b/c some literature results have pointed to the overcorrection causes more stress/strain than support due to how much the limit movement. Stability shoes allow for some. Putting a rigid insole in a heavy stability shoe can make it operate like a MC shoe.

Skechers makes an awesome shoe- but that would be the last shoe I would recommend to someone with tib tendonitis. Even with the superfeet, the foam will not interact well with a dropping navicular (sometimes a cause of pos tib) and cause excessive pronation.

8

I have flat feet and run in shoes with no support, Nike Frees or Mayflys (for races)

no problems.

I think a lot of people overthink this. Try different shoes, find one that is comfy. Run in it.

9

I have very flat feet, when I walk bare-footed there is absolutely no arch in my footprint.

When I run, I strive to keep my feet under my body but still heel-strike a little bit. I like to roll my foot from heel to toe and that makes my foot strike very light and quick. The wear pattern on my shoes show very little wear on the heel but I know I heel-strike from photos.

I like shoes that have a curved sole (looking from the side) and not flat. Most of my shoes are from Mizuno and Asics and are a bit curved like I described. When I run in shoes from Brooks (which I think are great shoes) I tend to stomp because the soles of the shoes I’ve used are normally really flat. That stomping hurts my knees and ankles so they really don’t work for me.

So I think the ability to roll my feet during the foot strike is key to keeping the shock low on my joints and keeping me pain free. For reference I run between 35 and 45 miles a week and run on: Muzino Rider, Hitogami, Ascend, Asics DS Racer, Fuji Racer, Saucony Fastwitch, A4

10

I have flat feet and run in shoes with no support, Nike Frees or Mayflys (for races)

no problems.

I think a lot of people overthink this. Try different shoes, find one that is comfy. Run in it.

Me too. I’ve got very flat feet and run tons just fine. If birds are heavier than air, how can they possibly fly? They figure it out.

11

It sounds like some people have no problems running with flat feet. A sports orthopedist who happens to be a fairly decent runner was surprised I was able to run with my flat feet.
I’ve experimented with alot of shoes the last few years since I was diagnosed with arthritic knees (which was probably due to the collapsed arches). The only shoes that really allow me to run pain free are the max cushion shoes like Hoka, Altra Olympus and Skechers Ultra.

Rob, do you happen to know if arch strengthening exercises can bring back the natural arch of my feet? I’m getting conflicting information on this. I know there is flatfoot reconstructive surgery but I’m not willing to go the surgical route just yet.

12

running in nike frees didn’t make my arches come back, even back when nike frees were really free.

but they were comfy!

13

I have flat feet and run in shoes with no support, Nike Frees or Mayflys (for races)

no problems.

I think a lot of people overthink this. Try different shoes, find one that is comfy. Run in it.

x2.

There’s a lot of mythology about this stuff. The term “fallen” or “collapsed” arches implies that something went wrong. Which can happen. But most people without normal arches are just born that way. Nothing bad happened. They didn’t develop “weak” foot muscles from running in cushioned shoes.

And some of them are absolute ballers. Some elite African marathoners pronate so badly on flat feet it’s hard to watch. But they run 4:10 miles and don’t get injured more than anyone else.

14

I have collapsed arches and it’s the first thing that doctors and podiatrists point out when I come with an injury. I may have to go with custom orthotics but I’m experimenting now with OTC orthotics and stability/motion control shoes. The question I have is - how are flat footed people able to run pain free if the arch of a foot helps absorb some of the impact of running? I can tell right now that I have nothing to absorb the impact when my foot hits the ground. I can feel it all the way up to my knees. One of the sports docs I’ve seen was amazed that I can even run the mileage that I run on them. From what I’ve read about foot arches, they provide two primary roles. They help absorb the initial impact when the foot hits the ground and they assist in transferring force during toe off. It seems that orthotics don’t really do anything as far the role of arches but limit movement to prevent overpronation.

Can anyone provide some insight into this??

I’m no scientist, but i believe landing on your forefoot changes the way the whole “system” works, from your foot to your ankle to you knees to your hips. Go run barefoot on the grass. I’m a firm believer that intervention (in terms of motion control, orthotics, etc.) is the problem, not the solution. Don’t start with the assumption that the system is flawed. Start the other way around. The body is an amazing thing.

I believe the vast majority of the impact absorption comes from the ankle and the knee. If you land on your heels on hard surfaces this throws everything out of whack…not how it was designed/evolved to work. If you don’t have much cushion, lift, motion control, etc., then you naturally wont’ land on your heel because it won’t feel right. It will hurt…and therefore the pain will guide you into the natural/correct running form. Run barefoot in the grass and it will magically happen over time. Then wear shoes will minimal cushion, especially on the heels.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am.

15

I have flat feet and always thought the shoes would be the answer, but they weren’t. I always wore motion control shoes and they let me run fine, but then I started getting plantar fasciitis which led to me icing after every run and stretching calves every morning and night. My weakness was tight calves and weak feet. I have since worked on strengthening my feet(toe curls, acordians,…), stretching calves every morning, and changing from a heel to midfoot strike. My feet are still flat, but now I am able to run in neutral shoes with no pain at all.

16

Just because your static arch height is classified as “flat” does not mean that you have excessive motion at the ankle.

Dynamically, you may have an inflexible foot with a low arch that actually responds like someone who would be classified as having a “high” arch.

Short of someone video taping your form, and factoring in the static arch with the dynamic movement, I wouldn’t get too caught up in someone being surprised when you have flat feet. This is a misrepresentation of research and practical application if any professional would say you automatically need arch support with a rx orthotic without factoring in other variables (such as stride rate, stride length, hip flexion, knee flexion, pelvic drop, etc). All of these provide an important details.

This is especially true with those who misidentify their initial footstrike location (majority of people are incorrect), say they’ve adopted a midfoot strike, or think that heel striking is wrong (was in this camp once).

Without factoring in the other variables, if you go to a health professional with a run injury, many will often say 1) stop running 2) you run too much, or 3) here is an orthotic.

Also- the arch plays a role, but they do not absorb as much initial impact as much as the major muscles that correspond with the ankle, knee, and hip. Nor assist with transferring force during toe off (when people try to force a toe off to “run faster” this actually does more harm than good).

Current research also leaning toward a good quality, rigid insole (such as a superfeet) will often address many of the issues a rx ortho will, and pure motion control shoes (such as the brooks beast) may do more harm than good.

My suggestion would be to find someone who is very knowledgeable in run biomechanics to give some practical feedback with an HD camera and the correct software (never trust someone who specializes in HD eyeball cameras…). Be forewarned though- if someone starts to go down the lane of “you must get to 180spm” or “midfoot strike only”…find a new “expert.”

Thank you for this response, Rob. Well stated…especially the final paragraph. As Jack suggested, people really over think things way too much.

17

I have flat feet and run in shoes with no support, Nike Frees or Mayflys (for races)

no problems.

I think a lot of people overthink this. Try different shoes, find one that is comfy. Run in it.

Me too. I’ve got very flat feet and run tons just fine. If birds are heavier than air, how can they possibly fly? They figure it out.

I’m with Brett and Jackmott on this one. My feet are so flat that they look like the inside of the ankle is actually touching the ground every time I step. I got severely injured on my PF after my first half marathon and my doctor told me I needed orthotics and stability control shoes. Well that was over 6 years ago. I still wear orthotics most of the time out of habit but all my Sprint and Olympic racing is on racing flats. And my half-iron and IM’s are on neutral shoes. I can also walk around barefoot all day and feel no worse than if I was wearing my orthotics. I think that consistent training over the years allowed my muscles to compensate for the isues with my flat feet. I think if you are willing to take it slow and train up your legs and feet that you do not need the expense of the custom orthotics. You have to be patient though…

18

I have flat feet and run in shoes with no support, Nike Frees or Mayflys (for races)

no problems.

I think a lot of people overthink this. Try different shoes, find one that is comfy. Run in it.

Me too. I’ve got very flat feet and run tons just fine. If birds are heavier than air, how can they possibly fly? They figure it out.

I’m with Brett and Jackmott on this one. My feet are so flat that they look like the inside of the ankle is actually touching the ground every time I step. I got severely injured on my PF after my first half marathon and my doctor told me I needed orthotics and stability control shoes. Well that was over 6 years ago. I still wear orthotics most of the time out of habit but all my Sprint and Olympic racing is on racing flats. And my half-iron and IM’s are on neutral shoes. I can also walk around barefoot all day and feel no worse than if I was wearing my orthotics. I think that consistent training over the years allowed my muscles to compensate for the isues with my flat feet. I think if you are willing to take it slow and train up your legs and feet that you do not need the expense of the custom orthotics. You have to be patient though…

I happened to do a lot of barefoot stuff as well. Funny coincidence. I’ve read in a few places where many deficiencies can be compensated for by slowly adapting and letting different muscles grow to handle the work of the injured one. For example, my right shoulder joint is pretty trashed, but I can swim just fine with it after I took a couple of years of swimming easy and letting it adapt. I think older athletes are a big bag of injuries and scar tissue that the body is simply working around. :slight_smile:

19

I have very flat feet and I think I’m more susceptible to shin splints because of it. I think the compression sleeves make a big difference and when possible I ice my shins after running. I’ve also switched from a heel strike to a midfoot/ forefoot strike and eventually made the move to minimalist shoes.

20

Many people take corrective action like you have, but what seems to be overlooked is why this benefits the runner-

The answer isn’t the midfoot/forefoot strike, or the icing, compression sleeves, or minimal shoes- but rather a combination of interventions that have mitigated the load/changed the movement pattern and did not eliminate the stress- but adjusted how the stress is emphasized.

Running is about load management- and/or continuously changing the load or modifying for a new technique when the repetitive strain overstresses the system. This is why people often feel immediate relief when they transition to what they perceive as a change in footstrike. What they don’t realize is that “everything” works, but nothing lasts forever.

There is no single source for why someone gets “shin splints” (catch-all term)- but a global alteration to run biomechanics such as foot strike position will be enough to change the stress. Unfortunately, the original stress is now transferred to a new position. So when people say it’s as simple as (insert common ST theme of ‘strength train’, ‘midfoot strike’, ‘run cadence 180spm’ etc), it’s not so simple. Yes, running is simple. Load management is not. It’s also not as simple to say the body will “adapt” to the new footstrike- because there is still a stress to manage every time you run.

Bottom line, many who change like you did get benefits- but when people (like the OP) go through the roller coaster ride of train–>injury–>ortho/PT–>fix inj–>begin training and “see the light” with a new technique–>make progress, what happens is people latch on to the new technique and wonder why they’re back in the ortho office again “x” months later.

When injury prevention is approached as load managment (read: does not mean decreased volume, because more is more), the runner develops increased awareness for how to adjust, rather than wait until inj becomes an issue again.

In your case, I could wager that your previous inj hx was more a result of (or combination of) low step rate (less than 168spm), COM difference >4.5in, a knee difference between impact and midstance of >22deg, foot dorsiflexion >15deg, knee flexion at impact greater than 166 deg, and shoes with a heel/toe diff of 11mm or greater. What you did was adjust all of those, possibly increasing your spm, with a midfoot strike and minimal shoe- however now the stress is placed to the posterior rather than anterior. So the answer isn’t the shoe, per se, but rather the correction of the original stress. Which, BTW, can all be adjusted without the midfoot strike and minimal shoe. Minimal shoes (or drop) and midfoot strike isn’t THE answer, but it is A answer.

And all of the above gets mitigated without even looking at rearfoot eversion- which makes all of the anti-orthotic fanboys happy.