I looked a the Jack Daniels formula for Marathon training last night. There are six different types of plans each with 26-40, 41-55, 56-70, 70-85, 86-90, 90-105, 106-120 mile per weeks options. So, with 42 options from Jack Daniels and the Hanson Plan, the FIRST plan, The Runners World Plans, the Hal Higdon plans,…Galloway, …McMullin, …Friel, etc… I am wonder how to know what type of plan is best for me.
I had success with doing pure multisport training plannings from 2019-2022 (went from 3:14 to 2:54 marathon PR) I got really skinny on the run volume and really fat on the cycling and swimming. from 2023-2025 I have stayed on the multisport plans but have been running just under 3:00. I am wondering if I should make a change or just tweak the pacing and nutrition. With lots of swimming and cycling I can keep the higher volume without being as limited from the impact of running, but I am wanting to know what other’s thoughts are on marathon training for triathletes?
I want to finish without fading and to PR. There is prize money for the top three Masters Athletes at my next Marathon and with a sub 2:50 I could make the Masters podium. With 6-1/2 months to the race I have plenty of time to prepare but haven’t found the direction I want to go with the training yet.
I was hoping for something a little more structured but it looks like Adams hasn’t completed “Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Marathon” yet. “Don’t Panic” is always a good way to start out for any type of ultra endurance endeavor though.
You seem to have experience with such things, so the “Gary The Vale’s Distance Training Program for Beginners” is out of the question
Each week, make your long run just one mile longer than the previous week; trick your body into saying “It’s just a little more than last time. It can’t be that bad right?” Starting from Zero, you could be doing a 50 miler by the end of the year. If your long run is an out & back on the same route, you’re only going half a mile further down the road [“oh, I only have to THAT FAR next week!”]
Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger is worth a look given that you’re pretty fast already.
Of course - it’s up to you how you want to allocate your time. You’ll probably have to cut back on the swim/bike if you really want to stick with a high volume marathon plan.
Yes, I need to look at the Pfitzinger plan. It has been on my to-do list for a few days now. It is one I have seen listed a lot but is not one that I have looked at yet.
I did start to look at some of the Hal Higdon plans. He may have more Marathon plans than the Daniel’s Running Formula. The one that caught my interest was the “Marathon 3” plan which is his three running days a week plan. His notes said that the Marathon 3 plan is a few weeks longer than his other Marathon training plans because he feels that a longer plan was needed to make things work on three days a week. I liked his progression of workouts for Speed Work at the track and liked that it was a longer plan to address the trade-offs of a three day plan, but if I were going to do a three day plan I would use the FIRST Run-Less-Run-Faster plan because it is a lot more detailed and tailored with specific paces for workouts based on threshold testing, etc.
I also found a sub 2:50 plan at Running Planet Journal. I don’t know who the author is but is is NOT a watered down plan. It doesn’t look like it is really high volume, about 50 mpw in the peak weeks and 35 mpw when it starts out. It is also a bit longer than the standard 16-18 weeks plans at 20 weeks and also has an optional 8 weeks pre-plan for those who are not in near race shape year round (which the plan assumed that most sub 2:50 people are). I am not in near race shape year round. I am only at that point 2-3 months a year in the race season. So, I looked that pre-plan at it is a lot more than what I am doing. I started four weeks ago with 4 mile runs on weeks days and up to 8 miles long runs on the weeks ends. The plan was to do that for a month then go to 5.5 mile runs on weekdays and long runs up to 10 miles on the weekend. Finally, a months of 7 mile runs on weekdays and up to 12 mile long runs on weekends to lead into my Marathon training plan. The Pre-plan with the Run Planet Journal plan starts with 4 miles run on weeks days but also has a track workout the first month with 4-6 x 800m repeats at 2:42 splits with 400m active recover in between them. Then in the second month it has the 6 x 800 @ 2:42 and adds a day of 4 x 1600m at 5:45 pace. Oh, and long runs progress at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 16. That build would kill me. I did try the 4x800 instead of my long run over the weekend and was careful to not push things so I didn’t pull a hamstring or something else. I hit them at 2:55 pace which I was fine with. I noticed that the 800’s were prescribed at 2:42 pace all through the 20 weeks plan too. I don’t get why any plan would have the same pace of the same interval for 28 weeks. There is not way that you should be doing the same speed in week one after not doing speed work for two months as you should be able to do after 28 weeks. I have followed plans like this before and I go by feel and not by the clock and typically will be something around 2:55 in week #1. After 8 weeks, when my speed is back, I will be at more like 2:45 splits. The month before the race, when I am peaking, my splits will be around 2:35. That is just the way things naturally progress when I run by feel. When I try to go by pace instead of feel, I end up injured in week 1-2 and loosing 2-3 weeks to heal. So…I see the intent of the plan but it is not something I would follow without modifying. I also see that the 20 weeks Running Planet Journal plan starts with 16 mile long runs in week 1. Again this plan assumed that you are in near race shape year round. I would also have to modify the plan to get me to where I am doing 16-22 weeks runs the 6-8 weeks leading up to the race, but that is not something that I would be able to sustain for 4-1/2 months.
So…I have some base plans to play around with. I need to look at the Pfitzing plan though to see what it is.
The book is called Advanced Marathoning. The plans in it are:
peak 55mpw (should be doing about 25mpw before starting the plan).
55-70
70-85
85+
I’d suggest buying the book or finding it at the library as opposed to just downloading plans though. It has useful info on the rationale behind each workout.
I found the 55mpw pretty doable while training for triathlon. The higher mileage plans, you really want to just focus on running.
If I find just one plan that I am excited about I will follow it. If not, I will take a little bit of one, a little bit of another.
I won my first competitive race almost 40 years ago. I have been doing this long enough that I have a pretty good handle on the rationale behind different types of workouts. My concern is that I have been at a plateau for the past two Marathons. When that happens I have to try something different. Some new plans work like a charm and other are a flop. The Pfitzinger plans look good. I like that the intensities progress though the plan and are not all fixed like the Running Planet Journal plan. There aren’t even any speed workout until 10 weeks in. I like speed work, I just can’t hit it from week 1 like I used to do when I was a teenager. Gray haired guys have to slowly increase intensity from one week to the next to get to where the speed flows.
Pfitz has always been my go-to and sounds like it would be a good fit for you. Lots of mileage, but not a lot of speedwork. I like the med-long mid-week runs and I feel that the volume does the job. I used to follow the higher-mileage plans for sub-2:50, but now that I’m in my mid-50s, I supplement with cycling and don’t run as many miles (don’t race triathlon anymore, either). I’m following the 12/70 plan right now, but get on the bike instead of some easy recovery rides / doubles.
