I need some targeted exercises

Running
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Hey all. The run is by far my worst event. And the longer the event, the slower I am. In a sprint, I can generally hold about a 10/mile pace. Decent enough for an age grouper, but still slower than average. Olys or longer and that pace drops quickly.

When I do just stand-alone runs, I’m still only in the 9min/mile pace, but that’s a 5k or less. Again, longer runs and I get precipitously slower.

I’ve tried to identify why I’m so slow. I was never really fast, but when I was younger I could hold a solid 7min/mile for 15-20 miles. I’m not noticeably heavier today, just older. And what I’ve concluded is that I’m slower because I’m not really raising my legs when I run. I have more of a shuffling gate. My legs just feel too heavy to run with a high bend in my knee (if that makes any sense).

So I need some kind of exercises to help train my legs to lift the knee. Does anybody have any suggestions? I mean, I know I could just make some stuff up, but I would really like some exercises with a history of good results.

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Take a look at the thread below about Jump Rope. It seems there may be some reasonable gains to be made by putting that into your training.

I personally find that Plyometric workouts (which I guess Jump Rope also falls under) is super beneficial to my running. These sorts of workouts help make you more ‘bouncy’ or ‘springy’ and will endeavor to make you faster.

I quite often go back to the original P90X Plyo workout. As cheesy as it is, the combined workout is a mixture of cardio, HIIT, and jump training. If I skip a run to do it, I don’t feel as bad because it basically has the same benefits as going for a decent run (if not more).

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My suggestion - You’d get faster speed gains (pun intended) by join a running club that has some structured track workouts and a coach/staff to advise/correct some on form/mechanics.

Seems like trying to force high knee exercises to use when running will be result in an oddly silly gait and won’t necessarily result in a faster pace. e.g. try walking with high knees - your walking isn’t going to be faster. And you will definitely look silly.

The reason knees and feet aren’t picked up on a slow(er) pace, is b/c they don’t need to be. The body is efficient. e.g. Look at the folks on a track workout. Their very slow warmup/cooldowns have gaits with low(er) knees and feet. As speeds pickup, so do their feet - naturally.

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If you could run 7 min miles for 20 miles, you don’t need to change your form.

Sounds like as others mentioned, you need more speed work/ intervals. You can’t train your body to go faster without actually going faster.

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What he said. The longer you go, the lower the knee travels to save energy. You need to focus on sprinting, and building those interval repeats up. I told you these before, but you mileage addiction is hard to break. I say this as a former addict, who is now able to run as fast as i did doing 3× more millage a week

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Not sure I agree with much of the above. Your “form” (shuffle steps / low knee raise) is not likely the cause, but rather indicative of the pace you are running…thats how 10+/mi feels/looks.

Before a decent recommendation can be made, we need to know what your current training looks like…especially the run.

How many miles per week?
What is your run week structure (days you run, how much per day, types of workouts)?

What is your average run mileage per month for the last 6 months?

How old are you?

What does a typical training week look like, day by day? How long have you been maintaining this structure?

You say that you used to be able to run 7/mi for 15-20 miles. How long ago? What’s different in your training now vs then?

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I’ll look into it, but I live in a small community. I doubt there is any kind of organized run club outside of the local high school.

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Not to be argumentative but I’m running that pace because I just can’t run any faster. The weird thing is that I don’t feel like I’m really exerting myself from a cardio perspective. My heart rate is only about 120-125bpm on average and my breathing isn’t really labored. I’m probably high zone 2 to low zone 3.

Honestly, I don’t run a lot anymore. That has as much to do with arthritis as to my reconstructed left ankle. I generally only run once a week to try and keep the damage to a minimum. Since I do a lot of tri, I do tend to run BRICs on the weekend, and those runs vary anywhere from 2 to 5 miles. Did an 8 mile solo run yesterday and was only able to barely maintain a sub 12min/mile pace. Again, it didn’t feel like I was overly exerting myself. I wanted to go faster, I felt like I had the O2 and blood to support it, I just couldn’t make my legs move any faster.

The rest of my week is split between swimming, just bike and some core and strength training.

I’m now one the wrong side of 50 (with a couple years experience) and my 7min/mile days are a good 30 years behind me. I get that I’m going to slow down as I age, but just damn. I can’t believe a 10min/mile is the best I can look forward to.

Of course, I wasn’t running the entire time from my 7 minute days. After I got out of the military, I embraced my inner couch potato for a couple decades. I’ve only really gotten back into any significant physical activity in the last 7-8 years.

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Jen-

I’m also well north of 50, at 57. I too had to take a decade+ long break in my late 30s due to a medical condition, only to return to tri at 47. I get it. That said, It’s still possible to gain run fitness and some speed. I don’t know what your ultimate potential was or is… But, I’m sure you can improve.

But, what you are experiencing is just poor run fitness; but good general fitness, mostly from your bike. That’s why your hr remains lowish—you are fit, just not run-fit. Running is unforgiving. With only one-ish run of 5-8 miles per week… It’s going to be very hard to make much progress.

Changing your run gate (raising your knees, etc) won’t make you faster. Trying to do speed work other than doing basic strides, more than likely it will only make you injured—especially, as someone with your ankle and arthritis. That’s putting the cart before the horse. High knees, and a strong heel kick (aka pretty running form) are a consequence of fast running not the other way round.

What would serve you best is just another day or two of running per week, and maybe some strides if you aren’t doing those already. But, I don’t know if that’s a good idea for your arthritis and ankle reconstruction or not. For that you need a medical opinion…as for what’s best for you long term.

Honestly, I wouldn’t do bricks, unless it’s a time management thing. There’s not any fitness benefit to doing bricks, and from a run point of view, it puts you running on tired legs, and will only cause you to run slower. I’d do solo runs as much as possible. Running on fresh legs will make it easier to run a little faster, and will benefit your run fitness more - - - assuming the same workouts are completed…just separately.

Obviously, I don’t know anything about your arthritis or the nature of your reconstruction. But, I do have have running friends (of a similar age) with arthritis and other reconstructions, who have managed to return to regular, frequent running with proper treatment. Again, a conversation with your medical professionals—as this is all very individual. None of us can(or should) advise you there.

Running fitness… Even with enough frequency… Takes a long time to regain.

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If you were chased by a large dog would you run a 10 minute pace?

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Do you have a goal?

On one hand, you are lamenting that you are slow and you want to be faster. On the other hand, you admit that you have physical limitations and you only run once a week.

Mechanics aren’t going to get you faster. Doing the sport more will get you faster. You aren’t going to get faster by thinking about it.

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Assuming you’re near Vegas(?), I’m sure there are a few local running clubs near you. Folks on the forum and in your area may be able to point you to some good ones.

Also, ask at the local running shops if they do group workouts or a club.

Last but not least, you could be the one to start the club. From some of @randmart posts, he’s done this before and may have all sorts of advice.

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Z2 workouts may get you slightly faster with higher volume… but if life hits taking time away, its netter to focus on quality

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Not true.

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What is not true? I used to run 90 mile weeks at 8 min pace everyday except for races. Half marathons were 1:27-24 averages. Last year switched to more threshold focused runs, at about 35mpw, hit 1:27. (Never ran over 8 miles in a day also). Some of those no run days filled with threshold bike efforts

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That’s not the same thing, at all, as what we are discussing here. Context matters.

Someone switching from a large base of 90mpw to an intensity focused plan is completely irrelevant to someone running once a week for less than 10 miles.

As desert dude says, you have to have a cake before you put on icing. Cake = base run fitness, Not swim/bike fitness.

Jen is biomechanically compromised. Adding intensity without proper joint conditioning is how people get injured. You should know… I recall a 5k/day plan of yours a few years ago.

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Honestly, I did a very similar thing in 2020. I ran 120mpw (500mi/month) during the gvrat over the summer. 5k times were ~21:30. After gvrat, I changed to 50mpw with heavy intensity 3x per week. 5k times dropped to 18:45.

Yes intensity and spees works. But, primarily on top of a very solid base of fitness… And especially on a solid biomechanical platform.
It’s not a valid substitute method for developing base fitness… Especially in someone at high risk of injury.

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Thanks for the input, Tom. I think my main goal is to get solidly back under a 10min/mile for solo runs and maybe sub 12min/mile for long course triathlon. I seem to do OK in a 5k, but pretty much anything longer than that, I drop pace really quickly.

As for medical opinion, the surgeon that put my ankle back together once told me that just walking might be “tricky”. He would probably shit himself to know I’m running (kind of) Ironman distance events. (OK, so it was just the one time).

With the temps being cooler now I think I will add in maybe a 1-2 mile sprint run after work. That would be super easy. Where I work, there is a circuit that is exactly one mile around. And I can save longer training runs for the weekends. At least I can do that until we hit summer. I don’t run during summer unless it’s at the absolute crack of dawn.

And as far as the bricks, I actually started doing those just to give myself more time running. I was only running one day a week as a dedicated run. But I added in the brick just to tack on an extra mile or two after a ride. I figured even if it didn’t help so much with the speed, it should help with the conditioning, particularly for when I’m actually running an event.

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For a short time. I can still hold a 10min/mile pace for about 5k, then I drop like a rock.

Quick story. Last year I decided to up my game and run a half marathon. Despite having a number of triathlons and other solo events under my belt in the last few years, I haven’t run anything that long in 30 years.

I was thinking, absolute best case scenario, I finish just inside 2 hours. I mean that was optimistic, but hey, it could happen. But realistically, I was hoping for about a 10min/mile pace so looking at 2:10 to 2:15 neighborhood.

I started out strong. Got to the turn around point at 6.55 miles and I was at 1:06. No way I was going to do my super optimistic 2 hour time, but surely on pace for that 2:15. But about mile 7.5 I just hit a wall. My pace dropped way off and then, around the 9 mile mark, I had to switch to run-walk-run strategy. Ended up at 2:41 and I was totally spent.

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Actually, I’m no longer in Vegas. I lived in the Vegas area for 20+ years, but moved out about 5 years ago. I’m still kind of close, but not that close. I live in a smaller town with a bunch of old people.