US labor agency says eight SpaceX employees were let go for circulating a letter calling the founder (Musk, of course) a ‘distraction and embarrassment’
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/jan/03/spacex-employees-fired-elon-musk-labor-board
Yeah, the truth hurts. Poor wittle Elon …
I mean you criticize your boss like that, sure you’re free to do it, but you shouldn’t be surprised if you get let go.
Now if they go on twitter and bash him and he kicks them off that, that would seem to me to be hypocritical.
I mean you criticize your boss like that, sure you’re free to do it, but you shouldn’t be surprised if you get let go.
Now if they go on twitter and bash him and he kicks them off that, that would seem to me to be hypocritical.
For a regular job with a regular boss, perhaps. Still not legal.
But for a job under “free speech absolutist” Musk, f*ck no.
Because Elon’s a hypocrite. And he’s not a free speech absolutist in any sense of the words. He just supports nutcases that parrot his own unhinged idiocy.
For a regular job with a regular boss, perhaps. Still not legal.
Not true. Depending on the state it is either “questionably legal” to “absolutely legal.”
New York is the latter.
For a regular job with a regular boss, perhaps. Still not legal.
Not true. Depending on the state it is either “questionably legal” to “absolutely legal.”
New York is the latter.
Good to know. Always something to learn.
Do you have the relevant statute for NY state? It would be interesting to read the wording.
I mean you criticize your boss like that, sure you’re free to do it, but you shouldn’t be surprised if you get let go.
Now if they go on twitter and bash him and he kicks them off that, that would seem to me to be hypocritical.
For a regular job with a regular boss, perhaps. Still not legal.
But for a job under “free speech absolutist” Musk, f*ck no.
Because Elon’s a hypocrite. And he’s not a free speech absolutist in any sense of the words. He just supports nutcases that parrot his own unhinged idiocy.
If I badmouth my boss publicly, I’d be let go in a heartbeat, and rightly so.
I do not follow Elon so I’m not aware of most of what he says.
I actually get most of my news here from the good ol’ LR.
I hear you. But you work for a regular person, not of 'dem “free speech absolutists”. And the word, ‘absolute’, is pretty comprehensive.
And, based on the article at least, the NLRB also seems to think that something unlawful was occurring.
I mean you criticize your boss like that, sure you’re free to do it, but you shouldn’t be surprised if you get let go.
Now if they go on twitter and bash him and he kicks them off that, that would seem to me to be hypocritical.
In the Us Tesla employees are made to sign agreements that cover their significant others:
“Kuzma pushed back with the help of a union lawyer, who argued that Tesla’s employee confidentiality provision, originally written for its U.S. workforce, could not trump Swedish free speech protections, which allow workers — and their partners — to talk about work conditions.”
https://apnews.com/article/tesla-strike-union-sweden-labor-dispute-5124a0074f6b4c5b7f503b5353afe8b3
Maurice
I mean you criticize your boss like that, sure you’re free to do it, but you shouldn’t be surprised if you get let go.
Now if they go on twitter and bash him and he kicks them off that, that would seem to me to be hypocritical.
In the Us Tesla employees are made to sign agreements that cover their significant others:
“Kuzma pushed back with the help of a union lawyer, who argued that Tesla’s employee confidentiality provision, originally written for its U.S. workforce, could not trump Swedish free speech protections, which allow workers — and their partners — to talk about work conditions.”
https://apnews.com/...4c5b7f503b5353afe8b3
Maurice
That’s crazy that that is legal in the US.
For a regular job with a regular boss, perhaps. Still not legal.
Not true. Depending on the state it is either “questionably legal” to “absolutely legal.”
New York is the latter.
Good to know. Always something to learn.
Do you have the relevant statute for NY state? It would be interesting to read the wording.
New York is a Work at Will State
“New York State is an “Employment-at-Will†state. That means that an Employer may terminate an Employee at any time and for any legal reason or no reason at all.”
That means that regardless of the real reason I’m letting you go, all I have to say is your employment is no longer required and I can send you on your way. Most big companies (mine is one of them) requires a bunch of hoops to let someone go. About the most I can do on my own is suspension without pay pending an investigation, but NY state doesn’t require that, that is corporate’s policy. This is because we are an outlier in that respect so cooperate HR sets the requirements for everyone based on the most stringent state that we operate in. Just makes it easier for their legal department
If I badmouth my boss publicly, I’d be let go in a heartbeat, and rightly so.
I don’t think it was public, “…letter sent to SpaceX executives.”
In fact even now that we know about the letter, I’m not sure it’s been fully leaked. Just a few choice details. At least I didn’t find an immediate link to it in the Guardian article or a couple other articles.
Same thing may still apply - badmouthing the CEO with his corporate peers, you can except knives to come out. As with any coup, the first rule of coup is “win the coup.”
But it’s still a somewhat important detail that it doesn’t appear to have been public.
New York is a Work at Will State
“New York State is an “Employment-at-Will†state. That means that an Employer may terminate an Employee at any time and for any legal reason or no reason at all.”
Since this is Federal law, not state law, being invoked, how does that play into it? The article claims the NLRB has the authority to force a company to rehire employees in some conditions. Is that not true?
The details of the letter aren’t given, but my guess is a group did it as a show of unity. If they used the correct words the NLRB is probably going after them for union busting. It is against federal law for management to do anything to prevent workers from organizing.
If they used the key words and tricky phrases required to meet the burden. I would think that a company the size of SpaceX would have a pretty good HR department and some labor relations lawyers that at least reviewed and provided recommendations. Or maybe the jackass just went off on his own.
We don’t really know. It is pretty common for vocal free speech people to be very sensitive to speech about them.
It is pretty common for vocal free speech people to be very sensitive to speech about them.
Exactly.
For a regular job with a regular boss, perhaps. Still not legal.
Not true. Depending on the state it is either “questionably legal” to “absolutely legal.”
New York is the latter.
Good to know. Always something to learn.
Do you have the relevant statute for NY state? It would be interesting to read the wording.
New York is a Work at Will State
“New York State is an “Employment-at-Will†state. That means that an Employer may terminate an Employee at any time and for any legal reason or no reason at all.”
That means that regardless of the real reason I’m letting you go, all I have to say is your employment is no longer required and I can send you on your way. Most big companies (mine is one of them) requires a bunch of hoops to let someone go. About the most I can do on my own is suspension without pay pending an investigation, but NY state doesn’t require that, that is corporate’s policy. This is because we are an outlier in that respect so cooperate HR sets the requirements for everyone based on the most stringent state that we operate in. Just makes it easier for their legal department
They can fire you for no reason at all, but that’s not the same as being able to fire you for any reason at all.
They could fire you for no reason, but if it’s clear they fired you for speaking out against the boss, well, that’s no “no reason.†And just because they choose not to give a reason doesn’t mean they didn’t have a reason. The question is whether or not that reason was legal.
One can be a staunch supporter of free speech and still make a decision that is in the best interest of the company. That’s not hypocritical, it’s good business management.
And without seeing the full context of this letter, it’s difficult to form an opinion on this specific matter.
That said, circulate a letter as described in your post at my company and you’ll be out immediately. And I’m a strong supporter of free speech.
That said, circulate a letter as described in your post at my company and you’ll be out immediately. And I’m a strong supporter of free speech.
Free speech, for some, seems to have come to mean there can’t be negative consequences to what a person says.
And, based on the article at least, the NLRB also seems to think that something unlawful was occurring.
From what I can tell the letter was complaining about work conditions, so I would guess that’s why.
But they also chose to go after Musk’s public persona which is what is getting the headlines as a free speech issue.
It may not be fair, but…
Biting the hand that feeds you rarely turns out well. So, chewing on that hand better be a delicious last supper.
Anybody for a burnt bridge?
It may not be fair, but…
Biting the hand that feeds you rarely turns out well. So, chewing on that hand better be a delicious last supper.
Anybody for a burnt bridge?
I don’t understand why if your concern is the work environment, which to me seems like a reasonable thing employees should be able to raise without getting fired, you also basically insult the boss, which is unnecessary and reasonable grounds for dismissal.