I am training for IMAZ. I have been swimming on and off since Jan 05. I swam the Soma HIM in 33 min. This is not slow, but compared to my abilities in the other two disciplines not fast. I am taking a stroke mechanics class in Dec. It meets once a week for that month. I know improving my stroke will make the biggest difference.
How should I be training. Long sets (500s, 1,000s) or fast sets (50s, 100s, 200s). I know this has been talked about before…basically should I work on speed then build endurance off of that, or should I build the base then speed.
Does anyone have links to a site that has good ironman swim workouts. There is not a well developed masters team at the university I am attending.
If you have been swimming “on and off”, I would suggest trying more on and less off. Consistency is huge while getting a feel for the water. Build a foundation by working on technique consistently as the race gets closer get more refined on specific goals during your main set.
I have been swimming consistently for the last 12 weeks (~16,000-18,000 yards). I know the more consistent the better. I just want to know what type of workouts are good. I have no background (never have been on a swim team or anything) and I am sure I could ask the swim coach at school, but thought that fellow triathletes may have an opinion.
Lots of great resources out there on how to structure your swim training. Lots of coaches on this board. Doug Stern gets involved in swim discussions like this. You may consider sending him a PM if he doesn’t respond to this thread. The coach you know would be good too.
Personally my workouts are structured with a warm-up, drill sets, main sets, cool down. The main sets are progressive getting more specific as the race approaches. And responding to your original question longer sets (500’s 1000’s) are more specific to Ironman training.
It’s good to hear that you have been consistent. I know that consistency has been my biggest hurdle.
Get the book “Workouts in a binder” by Gale Bernhardt
Along with the workouts it gives you a sample schedule. Most of the workouts are in the 3000yd range but you can easily add 1000yds by repeating part of the main sets.
Swimming faster is about swimming both longer and shorter repeats. Vary your intervals lengths and recovery lengths based upon what you would like to accomplish during that set. it might not be a bad idea to do a 30 min TT, or you could use your Soma time if you swam straight to figure out your swimming pace per 100. Then go to http://www.wolverineswimcamp.com/WSCDownloads.html to figure out what you need to swim on to achieve your goals.
Swimming faster, contrary to many triathletes thinking, is not just about swimming long repeats.
Thanks for all of your input guys. I just got done reading some previous post about technique, hopefully my strokes mechanic class will help. I would try some drills, but there is no point if done incorrectly. My training partner is a very fast swimmer, but he is one of those that when you ask him if he does “this or that” in regards to stroke technique, he has no idea and says he doesn’t really think about.
Is it good to alternate swimming short and fast on one day and then longer sets on the next day. What is considered aerobic for swimming when doing shorter intervals?
The pace charts the dude posted a link to are pretty helpful for sorting out aerobic and anaerobic pace.
The general rule of thumb is that for an aerobic pace, you should be breathing moderately hard, and you get at least 5 but no more than 10 seconds of rest per 100 yards/meters. So if you’re doing say 5x200 and completing each one of them in 3:23, then your send off interval should be 3:40. (99.99% of the time, your send off interval will have a 5 or a 0 on the end in order to make it easier to do the math right)
And you should be doing fixed send offs rather than fixed rest amounts a good 90% of the time. Fixed rest allows you to get sloppy toward the end of the set. Fixed send off forces you to hold a constant/steady pace or even a decending pace throughout the set depending on how you structure it. And successful triathlon swimming is all about learing to make a steady aerobic pace as fast as you can with as little effort as possible.
Structuring practices- tradition says that speedwork for distance swimmers doesn’t merit its own seperate practice. Instead, have it be a part of the 20% or so of every practice set aside for speedwork and drills. Speedwork here being defined as a set you swim at faster than anaerobic threshold pace- you can make one heckava long distance practice swimming only 50s and 100s with a properly sadistic coach, and can do 200s as sprint sets.
Can you give some guidence on the charts (color indicates what?)? Also, I average about 2:00/100 meters after about 500 meters and the charts go to 1:40. Can I adjust the charts?
you can adjust the charts as needed, if you read the top of the charts it tells you what each color is indicated for. Also flipping through the presentations I think there is some info in there that may be useful. It’s been a few years since I went through them.
If you look through the charts they give you :10 hr counts. Multiply by 6 to get you hr per min. the charts also indicate rest time. So if you wanted to swim an aerobic set, then you use everything up to Pink. Faster above lactate turnpoint sets are Red and above.
The anaerobic chart is for figuring out the % of a certain pace that you want to swim. So for instance if you want to do 200 repeats on 92% of your 200 best time then the chart calulates that for you. For many triathletes that may be a good thing if they want to learn to swim pace for longer distance. ex someone swims 19:20 for 1.5k and wants to do repeats at 95% of that effort. the chart can do the math. It’s been years since I payed with that chart so I’m going by memory since I didn’t bother to open it prior to typing this.
If your slow might a stroke coach be beneficial or a masters program?
Not like I am any piece of swimming art…but I find that if I do faster sets, I generally hold a higher body position in the water, and I get used to the feel of swimming faster. I can swim forever long and slow, but I have issues swimming fast, so the only way to swim fast in racing is to do this in training. Shorter sets with lots of 100’s and 200’s work for me. When I get closer to an Ironman, sets like 8x400 are nice for the specificity of Ironman.
I find when I swim long and slow, I just reinforce, sloppy slow poor form and I build that poor form into my brain. As such, I like to end every workout with a set of 8x50, usually heading out on 60 seconds with lots of rest and trying to come in at 40 seconds in a 50 m pool (fast for me).
I think it really depends on your swimming background. I am doing IM AZ too, and I will be swimming 3 times per week for a total of 15,000-17,000 yards. I used to swim the 1650 and 400 IM in college, so I know I can handle a lot more volume than that. I find that swimming on m-w-f mornings is a good way to kick start the day. I find that my general fitness is higher across the board when I am more fit from swimming. Personally, I do not think I would benefit from much long, slow, distance swimming since I have such a deep base to pull from there, just as a cyclist converted to triathlons would not have to do the mega miles on the bike since he would already have the cycling base. If you can handle the intensity, then do it as long as it does not leave you trashed for your quality bike or run sessions.
Flanagan, here is a thought from a “big picture perspective”. You mention that you do ~5000 m every Mon-Wed-Fri morning. If you plan to have another workout during the day, especially a run have you considered doing your swim as your last workout of the day (easier to do non weight bearing stuff when your body is trashed) and do the weight bearing stuff first. The swim will actually serve to assist your recovery for the next day.
I see lots of people hammering out swims in the morning and then trying to run hard in the evening. All this does is increase the chance of injury. Sure, it is smart to swim first on a fresh body at least once a week, but the rest of the time, consider swimming as your last workout of the day. It is amazing how much better both workouts end up being and how much more recovered you’ll be the next day.
On most training days, I try to run before biking, run before swimming, bike before swimmming, moving from the most weight bearing exercise to the least. I find that this minimizes my chances of injury and improves my recovery and allows me to maintain higher overall training volumes. Give it a try.
And the ex-fish also have something of a different definition of easy swimming than most people. Easy pace for me- warm up swim where it’s all about properly stretching out the arms and my heart rate is actually slightly lower than what it was when I was walking across the pool deck. So if we’re talking what I think of as easy swim pace, it’s like why bother going to the pool then because it’s not like I’m really doing anything in the water.
If I’m going to get wet, I want to feel like my trip to the pool was worth it, and I’ve got a hard time feeling it was worth the time without a nice 2000-2500M main set done at aerobic hard pace.
devashish paul - Flanagan as an ex swimmer, swimming 5k is not, even if it is a tough workout, as hard as a non swimmer swimming 3k. Heck at the end of the day he probably forgot he swam.
Even if he is hammering the swim I doubt that it would impact his evening wokouts negatively. Plus look at his vol 15-17k, it’s not like he is swimming 8k per week. He is also way, way more efficient than the avg triathlete in the water. he also mentions that he seems to have more overall fitness with the high volume swimming, therefore again, his workout in the morning would not impact his evening workout with the same detrimental effects that a non swimmer would have.
i think dd hit the nail on the head. as a swimmer, i am used to getting up in the morning and getting work done in the pool and having to come back that afternoon and get more work done. also, as a swimmer, i have to be very careful about the impact running puts in my body. i find that i can not run first thing in the morning. if i do, then there is a much greater chance of getting injured. swimming allows me to loosen up for the rest of the day. on days when i have enough time, then i can swim and follow it up with a run, but i can not do it the other way around. also, the masters group i swim with is an AM group, and it is hard to find a group that does 5500 yards in 90 minutes, so i stick with this schedule. T-Th are the AM computrainer rides.
I’m talking about within the context of drill sets ( to maintain form and work on different aspects of form. ) My plan was to work longer easier workouts in sets from 50’s to 100’s with short rests to increase my total swim endurance and really nail my form and efficiency in preparation for a ‘build’ phase. I lost a little of my zeal for the swim, since I had the achilles injury that kept me from racing. (It’s better now.)
I’m not sure this is necessary since I’m only planning to do ‘seventy point three.’ (Give me a break–why not 1/2 IM?)
So, the same rules that apply to base building in running and biking do not apply to swimming. I have actually read this somewhere before, but cant remember.
Is this because swimming is so much technique…for a beginner or slow swimmer to swim long and slow would be teaching the body to swim slow?