No this isn’t the usual do I need faster cadence post
Yesterday I was swimming when a woman got in the water. She was approx 15 seconds faster per 50 yards than I am
I thought I’d take a look underwater to see if I could learn something about stroke mechanics
I was pleasantly surprised that When I increased my stroke rate to the same as hers we were both going the same speed. We did the same number of stokes per length
So I took this to mean I am getting a fairly good catch. Am I correct in thinking this?
Her speed was 1:25/100 yards. Yes I know not olympic speed but faster than me
I also realized I couldn’t keep up that pace for very long as I really needed to use a lot of strength in shoulders and back to pull through that fast
So the question is what do I need to do to be able to keep that stroke rate?
I am currently swimming 4 times per week 2500 yards with variety of sets and rest
Would you suggest pulling to increase shoulder/back strength?
If you want to train yourself to swim at that speed for longer, the best thing to do is to swim at that speed as much as you can. Swim 25’s at that pace on 15-20 seconds rest until you can’t hold that pace. When you fail, rest 60-90 seconds, then resume. Once you’ve failed 3 times, you’re done with the set. Swim an easy recovery set, then move on to something else like a kick set or a technique set or an off-stroke set.
You’re looking for progression; getting farther in the set before first failure, or farther until you fail out. Once you’ve “mastered” that speed at that distance (can do ~20 in a row without failure), you move on to doing 50’s at that pace on 20 seconds rest. You’ll obviously go backwards in volume, but you keep working to build it up until you master the pace at that distance. Then you move on to 75’s, 100’s, etc.
I’m not trying to be obnoxious by saying this, but you just need to do it. Swim more often at that higher cadence. You’re obviously able to, if you swam at her cadence and saw your speed go up. So just doing more of your swims at that cadence will make you comfortable with it and able to do it for longer- there’s not really a shortcut.
Getting stronger shoulder and back muscles could help, if you’re wanting to go to the gym to do that. But really just consciously focusing on holding a higher cadence when swimming will be enough.
You could also look online for one of those swimming metronomes, which take some of the mental difficulty out of it.
If you want to train yourself to swim at that speed for longer, the best thing to do is to swim at that speed as much as you can. Swim 25’s at that pace on 15-20 seconds rest until you can’t hold that pace. When you fail, rest 60-90 seconds, then resume. Once you’ve failed 3 times, you’re done with the set. Swim an easy recovery set, then move on to something else like a kick set or a technique set or an off-stroke set.
You’re looking for progression; getting farther in the set before first failure, or farther until you fail out. Once you’ve “mastered” that speed at that distance (can do ~20 in a row without failure), you move on to doing 50’s at that pace on 20 seconds rest. You’ll obviously go backwards in volume, but you keep working to build it up until you master the pace at that distance. Then you move on to 75’s, 100’s, etc.
I’m not trying to be obnoxious by saying this, but you just need to do it. Swim more often at that higher cadence. You’re obviously able to, if you swam at her cadence and saw your speed go up. So just doing more of your swims at that cadence will make you comfortable with it and able to do it for longer- there’s not really a shortcut.
Getting stronger shoulder and back muscles could help, if you’re wanting to go to the gym to do that. But really just consciously focusing on holding a higher cadence when swimming will be enough.
You could also look online for one of those swimming metronomes, which take some of the mental difficulty out of it.
NOT obnoxious at all
Once in a while all need to be told to suck it up and just get it done
Its benefits extend beyond your lower body; turning the rope over also strengthens the stabilizer muscles in your wrist, forearm and elbow, something you know is key in developing a more forceful catch in the pool.
I also realized **I couldn’t keep up that pace for very long **as I really needed to use a lot of strength in shoulders and back to pull through that fast
I also realized **I couldn’t keep up that pace for very long **as I really needed to use a lot of strength in shoulders and back to pull through that fast
So, how long could you swim at this pace?
It wa at the e d of my workout and my breathing was ok but my shoulders and back muscles were finished after about 150 yards.
I didn’t want to push more as the shoulders seemed to be hurting not Inna good way
I also realized **I couldn’t keep up that pace for very long **as I really needed to use a lot of strength in shoulders and back to pull through that fast
So, how long could you swim at this pace?
It wa at the e d of my workout and my breathing was ok but my shoulders and back muscles were finished after about 150 yards.
I didn’t want to push more as the shoulders seemed to be hurting not Inna good way
Then you should be able to do plenty of 25 repeats at that pace.
Pretty isn’t always faster; I notice that a lot of people who are very smooth ‘attractive’ crawl swimmers are actually not especially fast (particularly in OW). To get that turnover, sometimes you have to stop worrying about what goes on above the waterline.
My cadence was super low in the beginning (40-45) and I upped it to 58-60 now.
in the beginning, i used a finis Tempo trainer alot and gradually increased my stroke rate (with increments of 3spm). Took about 3-5 months I guess before it became my ‘default cadence’.
Try 25s and 50s with an ankle band. I increase my stroke rate and decrease gliding/pausing when I swim with an ankle band. Alternate sets with and without the band. David K
No this isn’t the usual do I need faster cadence post
Yesterday I was swimming when a woman got in the water. **She was approx 15 seconds faster per 50 yards than I am **
I thought I’d take a look underwater to see if I could learn something about stroke mechanics
I was pleasantly surprised that When I increased my stroke rate to the same as hers we were both going the same speed. We did the same number of stokes per length
So I took this to mean I am getting a fairly good catch. Am I correct in thinking this?
**Her speed was 1:25/100 yards. ** Yes I know not olympic speed but faster than me
I also realized I couldn’t keep up that pace for very long as I really needed to use a lot of strength in shoulders and back to pull through that fast
So the question is what do I need to do to be able to keep that stroke rate?
I am currently swimming 4 times per week 2500 yards with variety of sets and rest
Would you suggest pulling to increase shoulder/back strength?
Any suggestions much appreciated.
So, you were going 1:55/100 yd and she was 1:25/100 yd, and you were able to up your stroke rate and keep up for 150 yds??? I find that a bit hard to believe, unless you were just really dawdling at 1:55. Or did you really mean to say 15 sec/100 yd faster???
No this isn’t the usual do I need faster cadence post
Yesterday I was swimming when a woman got in the water. **She was approx 15 seconds faster per 50 yards than I am **
I thought I’d take a look underwater to see if I could learn something about stroke mechanics
I was pleasantly surprised that When I increased my stroke rate to the same as hers we were both going the same speed. We did the same number of stokes per length
So I took this to mean I am getting a fairly good catch. Am I correct in thinking this?
**Her speed was 1:25/100 yards. ** Yes I know not olympic speed but faster than me
I also realized I couldn’t keep up that pace for very long as I really needed to use a lot of strength in shoulders and back to pull through that fast
So the question is what do I need to do to be able to keep that stroke rate?
I am currently swimming 4 times per week 2500 yards with variety of sets and rest
Would you suggest pulling to increase shoulder/back strength?
Any suggestions much appreciated.
So, you were going 1:55/100 yd and she was 1:25/100 yd, and you were able to up your stroke rate and keep up for 150 yds??? I find that a bit hard to believe, unless you were just really dawdling at 1:55. Or did you really mean to say 15 sec/100 yd faster???
I find this very helpful in increasing or keeping a steady stroke rate. It’s just a metronome that you wear under your swim cap and it beeps on a time frame. Very simple but effective.
If your catch is good and you can keep that stroke rate up, maybe what you are missing (aside from the fitness to sustain it) is that if you are doing a largely shoulder driven stroke rate increase, its going to be trying. If you an initiate your stroke rate from your core/hips and legs (and you actually don’t need a strong kick, just timing and a two beat kick may actually be easier and use less oxygen at a higher stroke rate) then you may have more power from the arms (more oxygen to give to the arms). Think about your body as a whip and the opposite hip being the handle of the whip transmitting to the opposite arm. I try to think of driving my left hip down hard while I pull hard with my right arm.
If you look at some of the top tennis players and the power in their serve its not because of the strength of their arms, and if you watch Lucy Charles swim, its the same. Its not arm strength or lat strength for that “style” of swimmer. (or Janet Evans back in Seoul 1988…probably the ultimate example of 2 beat kick and high cadence).
Disclaimer here is I am no fish, just another adult onset swimmer trying to figure the same thing out watching different stroke approaches of people with different body types. Each person has different personal hydro dynamics too and limb proportions so there is variance in stroke lengths and rates (Sun Yang and Janet Evans would look totally different both cruising at 1:10 per 100m pace).
If your catch is good and you can keep that stroke rate up, maybe what you are missing (aside from the fitness to sustain it) is that if you are doing a largely shoulder driven stroke rate increase, its going to be trying. If you an initiate your stroke rate from your core/hips and legs (and you actually don’t need a strong kick, just timing and a two beat kick may actually be easier and use less oxygen at a higher stroke rate) then you may have more power from the arms (more oxygen to give to the arms). Think about your body as a whip and the opposite hip being the handle of the whip transmitting to the opposite arm. I try to think of driving my left hip down hard while I pull hard with my right arm.
If you look at some of the top tennis players and the power in their serve its not because of the strength of their arms, and if you watch Lucy Charles swim, its the same. Its not arm strength or lat strength for that “style” of swimmer. (or Janet Evans back in Seoul 1988…probably the ultimate example of 2 beat kick and high cadence).
Disclaimer here is I am no fish, just another adult onset swimmer trying to figure the same thing out watching different stroke approaches of people with different body types. Each person has different personal hydro dynamics too and limb proportions so there is variance in stroke lengths and rates (Sun Yang and Janet Evans would look totally different both cruising at 1:10 per 100m pace).
No this isn’t the usual do I need faster cadence post
Yesterday I was swimming when a woman got in the water. **She was approx 15 seconds faster per 50 yards than I am **
I thought I’d take a look underwater to see if I could learn something about stroke mechanics
I was pleasantly surprised that When I increased my stroke rate to the same as hers we were both going the same speed. We did the same number of stokes per length
So I took this to mean I am getting a fairly good catch. Am I correct in thinking this?
**Her speed was 1:25/100 yards. ** Yes I know not olympic speed but faster than me
I also realized I couldn’t keep up that pace for very long as I really needed to use a lot of strength in shoulders and back to pull through that fast
So the question is what do I need to do to be able to keep that stroke rate?
I am currently swimming 4 times per week 2500 yards with variety of sets and rest
Would you suggest pulling to increase shoulder/back strength?
Any suggestions much appreciated.
So, you were going 1:55/100 yd and she was 1:25/100 yd, and you were able to up your stroke rate and keep up for 150 yds??? I find that a bit hard to believe, unless you were just really dawdling at 1:55. Or did you really mean to say 15 sec/100 yd faster???
Wow good catch. Yes you are correct let 100 yards. Thanks.
Ya, that’s what I thought. I’ve never seen anyone speed up 30 sec/100, except going from breast to free.
