It says that given my best recent 10k time (53:30), I should be able to run a 1:59 half marathon. However, my recent half marathon was much slower, 2:13 on a pretty flat course. (And that was a PR.)
So my half marathon time is a FULL MINUTE PER MILE slower than McMillan’s calculator suggests I should be running!
I think I get a similar result using Daniels’ formula.
My race nutrition, hydration, sleep, and pacing are all pretty good. So, what’s the deal?
Not enough long runs between 8-13 miles?
I did a TON of 5-8 mile runs last year so I just got fast at that particular distance?
Naturally more talented at shorter distances rather than endurance distances?
Not pushing myself as hard? Must admit it is a little easier to push hard for sub-one hour as compared to 2 hours.
Something else I’m not thinking of?
I’ll be doing a half ironman later in the year and would like to get a little faster at the half marathon distance. Also thinking about training for my first full marathon, in the winter.
Whenever your predicted times drop off significantly over longer distances then it is and endurance/training volume question. In college I ran a 4:30 mile, but could only manage a 15:56 5K. 10K dropped even farther, like 35 something. It was because I only ran 30-40 miles a week. Half-marathon time for me then was 1:18ish.
Longer distances require much greater volume to stack up to your shorter distances. By the time you get to half-marathon it is about 95 percent aerobic efficiency. I was reading a thread by a guy named Hadd and he usually found two things when he looked at a person’s training log that had a huge dropoff in performance at longer distances: 1) they ran too little volume 2) the running they did was too fast/i.e. too much speedwork.
I dropped close to 4 1/2 minutes on my half-marathon time by increasing my volume up to 60 miles per week. Without the 20 mph headwind for six or so miles of the course it would have been closer to a six minute difference compared to 10 years ago in college.
Chad
I should add that the half-marathon PR was completely “speedwork-free”. Intervals almost become irrelevant at half-marathon for 95 percent of the population.
Try adding longer runs in, like 15 to 17 miles. That’ll build endurance, and then you will probably naturally be a bit faster at 13.1 because of the added mileage.
when he looked at a person’s training log that had a huge dropoff in performance at longer distances: 1) they ran too little volume 2) the running they did was too fast/i.e. too much speedwork.
My instinct, this is spot-on. I am doing too little volume AND too much speedwork.
Run is 3 times per week. I am VERY reluctant to increase frequency, for a number of reasons. (Mainly, my focus for right now is triathlons, running is my BEST of the 3 events and I need to increase the frequency of biking and swimming before running.)
However, I am perfectly willing to increase the distance of each of my 3 runs. So for instance, if an average week has maybe a 9-10 mile run, a 5-mile run and a 3-mile run, I could perhaps increase that to 11-12 miles, 7-8 miles and 5 miles. Plus a short run off the bike.
If you are only running about 20 miles a week then you need to have realistic expectations about what you can do in a half-marathon. A 10K or 5K you might be able to get away with 20 miles a week and A LOT of bike volume to still run fast, but 13.1 miles is no joke. I go off of time and when I go out for a run I make sure each run is at least 45 minutes up to about 1:15, with at least one or two runs in the 1:25 to 1:45 range. If you only have three a week then I would recommend you go longer on all of them. Do it slowly, like adding in a mile per week to each of them. but if you can get up to a couple of hour long runs and a 1:30 to 2:00 run it will really help your endurance.
fit another run or two in your week, then build volume. You can go a long way by adding frequency and volume without worrying about upping the intensity. Besides a long run of 14-15 miles another good 1/2 marathon training run is a 6-8 mile run with the first 4-6 miles at 1/2 marathon pace then the last 2 miles at 30sec/mile faster (this is one very hard session but really teaches you about pacing). starting and finishing at a track is a good way to measure pace if you don’t have a marked course or a fancy watch.
I would throw out one other item IMHO, if you do not have a strong bike and sell out too much on the bike your run will suffer immensely. One general rule of thumb is that if your run is more than 10% over your open time for that distance (4 minues for 40 min 10k or 11 minutes for a 1:50 1/2 mary etc etc) you need to examine your bike training and racing philosophy.
I forgot to mention that I used to discount the calculators’ results until I did some searches for elite US runners and compared their mile times in college with their later marathon times. I found the calculators to be very spot on. These runners have pretty much maxed out their potential at both distances.
However, a normal person can come pretty close to their best times at shorter (less than 5K) distances on low miles, but never come remotely close to their best marathon times because of the necessary training involved. I found I could run about the same at 5K on 25 miles per week with lots of speedwork as I did on 60 miles a week with no speedwork. Beyond 5K the difference was very noticeable in favor of higher volume.
Yes, up the volume and possible lower intensity is generally the right answer. I ran a 1:45 half marathon late last year and a 4 hour full marathon last month. The drop off in my marathon time is all due to lack of volume.
** I did a TON of 5-8 mile runs last year so I just got fast at that particular distance?**
You probably need to build up to one 8-10 mile run each week and try to run some of your shorter runs a bit faster. Some hilly runs should also help.
Not pushing myself as hard? Must admit it is a little easier to push hard for sub-one hour as compared to 2 hours. How many halfs have you raced? I used to go out too slow. Now I try to split the race into a solid 10k and finish with 2 5ks.
I think you are using the calculators wrong. They do not mean that if you run X time for a 5K you will run Y time for a marathon, they simply tell you that if you trained an equivalent amount for the longer distance, that would be your expected time. If you are going to double the race distance from a 10K to a 1/2, you will definitely have to train differently in order to be at the same level of fitness for the 1/2 that you were at 10K.
The first thing I thought of was the Hadd posts myself when I read this!
Anyway, if you DON"T want to increase your over all running volume (which really is the best thing you can do), there are two very easy fixes that will help your half marathon time imensly.
Run a tempo run once a week instead of speed work (explanation to come).
Bump your long run up to at least 1:30.
The main factor that slows you down in a half marathon is lactic acid getting into the muscles. This makes them hurt and shut down. A run of 20 to 40 minutes at about half marathon pace (use the calculator to find this pace. You actual HM pace is too slow) will stimulate your muscles to produce lactic acid and, in effect, will train the body to NOT do this at that pace. Gradualy the pace will get faster and faster. This tempo run should feel just a little easier than a 10k race.
Unfortunately, the tempo run is not as popular as it should be once you get outside of the hard core distance running community. Bob Kennedy was aked if there was only one workout that he could do, what would it be. He said, “Tempo Run.”
Especialy for a half marathon; shouldn’t you train at the pace that you intend to race?
The other issue is capilary development. Running at slow paces will stimulate capilary development. This is specific to the muscles being used. ie swimming slowly will not build capilaries in your running muscles. An elite athlete will have as many as 13 capilaries per muscle cell feeding it oxygen and removing lactic acid. An untrained person will have only 3! While total running volume is your best bet, runs of over an hour tend to significantly increase this stimulous.
Speed work will do very little for your half marthon time. You are training your heart to pump more blood, your lungs to take in more oxygen, and your legs to react quickly to heavy pounding. None of these elements are really that challenged in a half marathon.
I can only speak from experience. I’m not big into the science behind it or anything. But I used the FIRST training program for a half-marathon, and improved from 2:14:57 in my first half in September '05 (Rock & Roll Half) to a 1:49:35 in my second half in March '06 (Shamrock Half). Basically, FIRST calls for three quality running days a week, with the other days being easy days or cross training days. One day is intervals of varying distances (anywhere from 400m to 2000m), the second is tempo runs, and the last is your long run.
Trying to be witty here, with a serious undertone.
I second the opinion of others that you need to increase the long run such that you train your body to endure long efforts. There is, however one alternative, that is to train your body to be faster. The faster you are, the less time you spend running a certain distance. Point is that most people can do a hard effort for about 90 minutes. If you develop enough speed in shorter training sessions (e.g. 10k in 40:00) such that the 1/2 marathon is over in 90 minutes, then the odds are good that you’re gonna do it OK (not that it wouldn’t be better if you actually trained for the distance).
I think you still need to do some speed work. Good long distance base plays a major factor but at some point you have also teach your body to run fast.
Everyone I’ve seen that sells increasing millage as the only way to improve your PR at 1/2 marathon + distances allways seems to have a strong speed base before they did this themselves.
Lots of long runs with out a doubt is a major player in helping improve long distance running. However faster tempo and track work inconjuction with strength workouts can help provide the platform to break those PR’s.
I am familier with the FIRST program, I tried to use it for my marathon but as I got closer I felt that the volume was insufficient which was born out by my time. I think it can work much better for a half marathon because it is a realtively short event. The difference between a half marathon and a full isn’t 2X, it feels more like 5X to me.
I feel the same way. I thought about using FIRST for my first marathon this fall, but had your same concerns about volume. So for my first full marathon, I’m going to be using one of Pfitzinger’s plans.
IMHO, if you do not have a strong bike and sell out too much on the bike your run will suffer immensely. One general rule of thumb is that if your run is more than 10% over your open time for that distance (4 minues for 40 min 10k or 11 minutes for a 1:50 1/2 mary etc etc) you need to examine your bike training and racing philosophy.