How the Pikes Peak Marathon/Ascent Deals With Qualifying to Race – Should it (or something like it) apply to IMNA races?

Triathlon Forum
1

Before “the injury” during the descent of the PPM which turned me in a triathlete (loose definition), I loved these races. Used to be registration opened around the beginning of January and the Ascent filled up around the end of March or so and the Marathon even later. In the old days you did it by mail Then in 2004 (the 50th running), something went wrong (really don’t recall) and registration was delayed until March and when they opened it up all hell broke loose and it sold out in a day or less. It is now like an IMNA race from a demand perspective. The next year they went first come/first serve. They have been trying to figure out the right rules ever since. I think they now have it about right. This is a deadly serious race with limited enrollment due to capacity on the mountain with cut offs due to mountain rescue if required. Here are the rules this year. And yes, I would still qualify but as much I love this race I am through doing 13 miles of decent from over 14000 feet to 6800. A man has to know his limitations.

Please discuss and comment. This ought to start a fight. :slight_smile:

General Race Registration
Ascent - Wave 1** - 950**
Qualifications needed to register for the 1st Wave of the Pikes Peak Ascent®:
Peak Veteran:

  • Have run the Pikes Peak Ascent® in under 4:15:00 or
  • Have run the ascent portion of the Pikes Peak Marathon® in under 4:15:00
    Peak Newbie or those who have not run the Peak in the last 5 years:
  • Have run a marathon in under 3:45:00 or
  • Have run a half-marathon in under 1:40:00.
    Qualification notes:
  • Races must be from the last 5 years (2003+).
  • Races before 2003 will not be accepted.
  • Races without online results will not be accepted.
  • Peak veterans of the last 5 years must use Peak times for qualifications.
  • Peak veterans with multiple results in the last 5 years may toss the most recent year only.
  • You will need to provide your qualifying race name, year, your time, and a link to your results.
  • Personalized PP Ascent and PP Marathon results links can be generated here.
  • You are responsible for finding the results websites for other races.
  • If the qualifications you provide can’t be confirmed you will be removed from the race and you will forfeit your entry fee! You will NOT be moved to the 2nd Wave!
    Register for the Pikes Peak Ascent - Wave 1 Begins March 12th at 12:30pm MT
    Ascent - Wave 2** - 865**
    Qualifications needed to register for the 2nd Wave of the Pikes Peak Ascent®:
    Peak Veteran:
  • Have run the Pikes Peak Ascent® in 4:15:00 to 6:30:00 or
  • Have run the ascent portion of the Pikes Peak Marathon® in 4:15:00 to 6:30:00
    Peak Newbie or those who have not run the Peak in the last 5 years:
  • Have run a marathon in 3:45:00 to 5:30:00 or
  • Have run a half-marathon in 1:40:00 to 2:30:00.
    Qualification notes:
  • Races must be from the last 5 years (2003+).
  • Races before 2003 will not be accepted.
  • Races without online results will not be accepted.
  • Peak veterans of the last 5 years must use Peak times for qualifications.
  • Peak veterans with multiple results in the last 5 years may toss the most recent year only.
  • You will need to provide your qualifying race name, year, your time, and a link to your results.
  • Personalized PP Ascent and PP Marathon results links can be generated here.
  • You are responsible for finding the results websites for other races.
  • If the qualifications you provide can’t be confirmed you will be removed from the race and you will forfeit your entry fee!
    Do not register for Wave 2 if you are Wave 1 qualified!
    Register for the Pikes Peak Ascent - Wave 2 Begins March 12th at 12:00 noon MT
    Marathon - Field 1** - 350**
    Qualifications needed to register for Field 1 of the Pikes Peak Marathon®:
    Peak Veteran:
  • Have run the Pikes Peak Ascent® (not an ascent portion of a PPM) in under 4:15:00 or
  • Have run the Pikes Peak Marathon® in under 7:00:00
    Peak Newbie or those who have not run the Peak in the last 5 years:
  • Have run a marathon in under 3:45:00.
    Qualification notes:
  • Races must be from the last 5 years (2003+).
  • Races before 2003 will not be accepted.
  • Races without online results will not be accepted.
  • Peak veterans of the last 5 years must use Peak times for qualifications.
  • Peak veterans with multiple results in the last 5 years may toss the most recent year only.
  • You will need to provide your qualifying race name, year, your time, and a link to your results.
  • Personalized PP Ascent and PP Marathon results links can be generated here.
  • You are responsible for finding the results websites for other marathons.
  • If the qualifications you provide can’t be confirmed you will be removed from the race and you will forfeit your entry fee! You will NOT be moved to the 2nd Field!
    Register for the Pikes Peak Marathon - Field 1 Begins March 12th at 1:00pm MT
    Marathon - Field 2** - 375**
    Qualifications needed to register for Field 2 of the Pikes Peak Marathon®:
    Peak Veteran:
  • Have run the Pikes Peak Ascent® (not an ascent portion of a PPM) in 4:15:00 to 6:00:00 or
  • Have run the Pikes Peak Marathon® in 7:00:00 to 10:00:00
    Peak Newbie or those who have not run the Peak in the last 5 years:
  • Have run a marathon in 3:45:00 to 5:30:00.
    Qualification notes:
  • Races must be from the last 5 years (2003+).
  • Races before 2003 will not be accepted.
  • Races without online results will not be accepted.
  • Peak veterans of the last 5 years must use Peak times for qualifications.
  • Peak veterans with multiple results in the last 5 years may toss the most recent year only.
  • You will need to provide your qualifying race name, year, your time, and a link to your results.
  • Personalized PP Ascent and PP Marathon results links can be generated here.
  • You are responsible for finding the results websites for other marathons.
  • If the qualifications you provide can’t be confirmed you will be removed from the race and you will forfeit your entry fee! You will NOT be moved to the 2nd Field!
    Do not register for Field 2 if you are Field 1 qualified!
    Register for the Pikes Peak Marathon - Field 2 Begins March 12th at 1:00pm MT
2

With both races now selling out within minutes, these seem like fair rules. It gives both the faster runners and the less fast a fair chance of getting in. It eliminates people who’ve never raced before. Considering the limited amount of participants, Pikes Peak is not a place where complete newbies or really slow people should take spaces from people who have proven they can actually run.

IMNA could do something similar. A certain number of registrations for fast people, another number for less fast people, and some for iron newbies if they have completed at least an HIM in under a certain time - perhaps 8 hours.

The way Pikes Peak is doing it should prevent people from trying to cheat the system. The threat of forfeiting the race fee if a person is caught registering for a wave they’re not qualified for will hopefully keep people in line.

I’m qualified for both races. I’ve never done either although I’ve lived in the shadow of Pikes Peak for 29 years. I’m still undecided this year. Since registration is only a day away I better make my mind up soon. I’ve hiked the Peak several times and could make the cutoff times just by hiking fast. I just don’t know if I want to run uphill for almost 8000 feet of elevation gain.

3

Do it – pull the trigger. The Ascent is the easier one from a biomechanical perspective. It’s a blast. I love the PPM but it is a mother on the descent. If you have the wheels, do the PPM. Either way, you won’t regret it. And when you are at 13000 feet, think of me kindly. Best.

4

Pike’s Peak Ascent was my first ‘endurance’ race ever. I signed up on a whim when I was in college…I think it was 1993…never having run longer than 6-7 miles… 3/4 of the way up someone suggested we all do a marathon 2 months later, a little delirious from the lack of oxygen I agreed.

If I would have had to do a ‘qualifying’ race of at least a half marathon I don’t think I ever would have tried the ascent…then i never would have done a marathon…which lead to triathlons and ironman racing… I think i would be a lot better off today :wink:

5

Why is it wave 1 of the ascent starts at 12:30 and wave 2 starts at 12:00? Seems backwards.

And, for the PPM why do both waves start at the same time?

Why does the race start so late and why does the marathon start after the ascent only? Seems you will have lots of people on the mountain exhausted after dark.

6

“Why is it wave 1 of the ascent starts at 12:30 and wave 2 starts at 12:00?”

Those are the times when registration opens for each race - not the time the races start. The races start at 7:00 AM. The Ascent is on a Saturday, the marathon is the next day.

Some people do both races - they’re called doublers. Matt Carpenter won both races last year - the second time in his career he has won both races on consecutive days. He also holds the records for both races as well as for a few ultra distance races. When Matt set the record for the Leadville 100, he broke the old record by about 90 minutes.

You are correct that it would not be good for people to on the Peak late in the day. There have been times when people have been turned back from the summit due to weather. A few years ago a bunch of Ascent participants were turned back at mile 10 and had to go back down 10 miles due to a thunderstorm and lightning.

7

“Why is it wave 1 of the ascent starts at 12:30 and wave 2 starts at 12:00?”

Those are the times when registration opens for each race - not the time the races start.
Duh.

8

I’ve always wanted to do this race, but I seriously doubt I could do it within the cutoffs, and I run a marathon in about 4:20 or so.

Those qualification standards surprise me somewhat. I would think that someone who would take over 5 hours to run a marathon would not be able to complete the Pike’s Peak Marathon within the 10 hours time limit, given that there is 7,800 feet of gain up to 14,000+ feet.

9

Running hills is a completely different animal…Will Matt Carpneter ever win Boston? Nope. Will Robert Cheruiyot ever win the Pike’s Peak Ascent? Nope. Totally different muscle groups. My neighbor wins Silverman, but will never win Florida. Part of the course is really all about how fast you can climb big stairs - not even running. Give it a shot!!

10

This race has filled in a flash in the recent past, before I could jump on it. So I decided if I can get in when I am free to register, some three hours after it opened, then I would pony up. So now I am signed up for Wave 1 of the Ascent. Better rediscover my vertical running form. Incline Club, I’m back!

11

“Those qualification standards surprise me somewhat.”

I obviously can’t speak for them but from just watching over the past few years, I think they were trying to make the people who get into Wave 2 have “street cred” without being obnoxious about it. In the past there have been a lot of people who have not made the cut offs. Nothing wrong with a little “fair” street cred being applied in these high demand races.

Al P Duez - Have fun! The treadmill at 12 degrees awaits…

12

“Running hills is a completely different animal…Will Matt Carpneter ever win Boston? Nope. Will Robert Cheruiyot ever win the Pike’s Peak Ascent? Nope. Totally different muscle groups. My neighbor wins Silverman, but will never win Florida. Part of the course is really all about how fast you can climb big stairs - not even running. Give it a shot!!”

Matt Carpenter is now in his early 40s. Even so, last year he won both the Ascent and Marathon on consecutive days for the second time in his career. He’s the only person to have ever done it once, let alone twice. While Matt likely never would have posed a serious challenge at Boston, he does (did) possess some serious speed. He was once capable of running under 50 minutes for a 10 mile race. At one time he held many of the local course records for races ranging from 5Ks on up. He focused on running well on Pikes Peak and has been very successful in that regard. If he had focused on road racing marathons instead. there’s no telling how well he may have done. Like many great athletes, Matt is somewhat humble about his achievements. He gives generously of his time, has been president of the local running club, founded the Incline Club, and can often be seen as a volunteer at local races.

Go up on Pikes Peak during the summer and watch Matt train between 11,000 feet and the summit. You’ll come away with a different perspective than “not even running”!

13

First of all Ironman Australia already has a variant of this process.

Secondly, Graham Fraser is an athlete first, businessmen second. I sure that he would love to see the average speed of his races go down for 2 reasons: In general, the better prepared athletes are for his race (fitness and experience), the less the medical support requirement and overall risk as an RD I don’t think he likes seeing people who will seriously train for his race being shut out by guys who have are doing it on a whim and never done a tri in their life, but want the Ironman tickmark on their life’s checklist
However, he is a businessman, and the endless cycle of people striving for the “checkmark” is what keeps the volume of his business up and selling out in a day. Bringing these people into things is good for the sport, but when it shuts out loyal customers, that is a problem.

For example, I have done Ironman Canada 5 times, but living in the eastern part of North America, I can no longer simply “sign up”. I cut my Ironman teeth in Penticton and went there 5 times, yet as a loyal customer, I am shut out. Fortunately, I have Lake Placid nearby, but many don’t have that option. Miss a year of “loyalty” at your favourite event and you are “shut out”.

Perhaps even having 1500 slots available to “repeat customers” with qualification times and then openning up the other 1000 to first timers would go a long way to the endless grumbling from loyal athletes. I suspect things would sell out in a day this way too, but at least those that have already put in to the event and have demonstrated some level of competence at Ironman don’t need to be physically there to sign up.

This year I will do my 9th Ironman Lake Placid. I need to decide the day before the race if I want to sign up for number 10, even before I get through number 9. It seems like this is asking too much. At least if you are going to reward loyalty can you wait until the customer has sampled this year’s service before asking them to commit to next years?

I might roll the dice and just try to qualify at a half Ironman next year.

Personally I like any merit based system, in sport, academics or business. After all Ironman is a competition with a clock and I see no issue with screening participants before entering. A race is not a rock concert for which you camp out of tickets.

Dev

14

for clarification - 75%+ of the “run” up the mountain is actually hiking, interspersed with some running. for the vast majority of the runners. very few do not walk at some point - especially the last mile or two as you reach the summit. then the second half is essentially 13.1 miles straight downhill. 10 hours = 22 minutes per mile. c’mon - most people that can complete a marathon at all (absent the walkers) should be able to do this. a slightly above-average road marathoner should be able to meet the wave 1 requirement of 7 hours for the pp marathon with zero specific training. IM distance - not so much. few can hop on a bike and ride 112 miles. I would think there should be more stringent “qualifications” for an IM race - but there are not.

15

“75%+ of the “run” up the mountain is actually hiking…”
**
I think that is very much an overstatement. Sure, there are points, as you mention at the top, and even near the start in the “W’s” when the trail is congested, that one may have to succumb to a quick hike. But it is no where near 75% (probably <25%). In fact in most of my experience the hike (death march) only occurred at the top and was usually a result of not being adequately acclimatized to the >12,000 feet in elevation. The rest is a relatively fast vertical run. If I get to train above tree line there will be no death march … I hope.

16

you may be right but what I saw was a lot of walking interpersed with running. hiking was not the right word. and very few people run the whole way up.

obviously the matt carpenters of the world do not walk.

mid-packers = a lot of walking

17

I think you underestimate the difficulty many people have just breathing above 11,000 feet. Fit or not, there is less oxygen up there and even walking can be difficult. The top people do a fair amount of training up high to acclimatize. The mortals who do not have the opportunity to train go slow. Even going downhill is more difficult up there. Plus it’s not like the course is a smooth road. It’s a rocky trail. Footing is uneven. Walking/hiking down is more difficult than is would seem. The constant jarring impact of running steeply downhill on legs that have already gone 13 miles uphill is very tiring. Many people fall on the way down. Others are leary of falling and go slower than normal. Yes, many people do walk a portion of the race. It is a tough course.