And do you exclusively use them as a seasonally-specific stimulus or at the same frequency year-round? To quantify, maybe answer as “one brick run in every x number of runs”. Olympic distance is what I’m most interested in, if that matters. Thanks.
Edit: just for clarity, time constraints and efficiency are not factors in my decision making here. Purely interested in optimizing training gains.
Out of curiousity, what do you consider to be a brick? Does a 1 h bike followed by 15 min transition run count? Or do both compoments need to be solid time lengths?
That’s pretty close to what I had in mind. Some surrogate of a 25 mile bike followed by a 3 to 5 mile run.
Edit: the focal component being minimal time in between the two disciplines.
I do them both ways. run 4, swim 1600, run 4 and bike 25 followed by 2 - 4 mile run. One each week.
I do a run off the bike (5 miles) 3x a week. I run (10 miles) out of the pool once or twice a week. Not for training, but for lack of time.
I think bricks are convenient and help with frequency.
I don’t think they are a tremendously valuable “key workouts.â€
That said, a couple of times a year I will do: a 30 minute bike followed by a 18 mile run (Ironman) , or a 100 mile bike followed by a 4 mile run (Ironman), or 2 hr bike followed by an 8 mile tempo run (70.3).
Doing them to get used to the feeling of running when your legs are fatigued is a bad idea. You just run slow with bad form, in most cases. Running after a bike is still running and your race run-speed will be determined by your run fitness and your bike pacing. Now, if you are doing the Olympics and need to crank out a low 5 min mile right out of the blocks then you might do a bit of transition practice, but that means you only need to run about 5 minutes after riding. Even then, in the midst of training it may not be that helpful, again because your legs are tired.
Stringing together runs and rides is a good way to maximize available training time, but do your run first and then ride.
Chad
Conventional wisdom says to do it one or twice a week after a bike session preferably within half an hour…I usually do my bike then change and then go run within that half hour window …other times I just go in my tri suit to get used to running in that …I usually do minimum once per week but I have heard of some athletes doing it 3-4 times per week. I would interested to hear what the pros on ST think.
Doing them to get used to the feeling of running when your legs are fatigued is a bad idea. You just run slow with bad form, in most cases. Running after a bike is still running and your race run-speed will be determined by your run fitness and your bike pacing. Now, if you are doing the Olympics and need to crank out a low 5 min mile right out of the blocks then you might do a bit of transition practice, but that means you only need to run about 5 minutes after riding. Even then, in the midst of training it may not be that helpful, again because your legs are tired.
Stringing together runs and rides is a good way to maximize available training time, but do your run first and then ride.
Chad
I think this idea is picking up momentum, especially in the longer events. I think Endurance Nation has completely eliminated bricks from their half and full plans. Is there some benefit–probably, but the risk of injury rises significantly. Most of what they write says that poor run performance is typically a lack of fitness OR poor pacing/nutrition on the bike.
I think bricks are convenient and help with frequency.
I don’t think they are a tremendously valuable “key workouts.â€
That said, a couple of times a year I will do: a 30 minute bike followed by a 18 mile run (Ironman) , or a 100 mile bike followed by a 4 mile run (Ironman), or 2 hr bike followed by an 8 mile tempo run (70.3).
I disagree with the lack of value. I’m focused on 70.3 right now and I can tell you that 2 hours @ 83% FTP (Polar Bear on TR) followed directly by 7 miles at goal pace helped me tremendously. I did it once during a final build (3 weeks out) and had tons of confidence knowing exactly what I could push on the bike and come off fresh.
My 70.3 training plan had several tempo brick sessions. Something like 60-90 minutes on the bike (with intervals) + 60 minute run (with intervals). Turned out to be some of my favorite workouts.
Doing them to get used to the feeling of running when your legs are fatigued is a bad idea. You just run slow with bad form, in most cases. Running after a bike is still running and your race run-speed will be determined by your run fitness and your bike pacing. Now, if you are doing the Olympics and need to crank out a low 5 min mile right out of the blocks then you might do a bit of transition practice, but that means you only need to run about 5 minutes after riding. Even then, in the midst of training it may not be that helpful, again because your legs are tired.
Stringing together runs and rides is a good way to maximize available training time, but do your run first and then ride.
Chad
I think this idea is picking up momentum, especially in the longer events. I think Endurance Nation has completely eliminated bricks from their half and full plans. Is there some benefit–probably, but the risk of injury rises significantly. Most of what they write says that poor run performance is typically a lack of fitness OR poor pacing/nutrition on the bike.
From a FMOP perspective, I agree. I do almost zero bricks, training for 9th Ironman now and run has steadily improved, and expect sub 4 next time out. I will throw in a few in the course of a 10 week plan but not not to the frequency I see most triathletes doing. My 2 cents if your experienced there’s minimal value to bricks, running long Sunday after a hard bike Saturday is sufficient.
I think bricks are convenient and help with frequency.
I don’t think they are a tremendously valuable “key workouts.â€
That said, a couple of times a year I will do: a 30 minute bike followed by a 18 mile run (Ironman) , or a 100 mile bike followed by a 4 mile run (Ironman), or 2 hr bike followed by an 8 mile tempo run (70.3).
I disagree with the lack of value. I’m focused on 70.3 right now and I can tell you that 2 hours @ 83% FTP (Polar Bear on TR) followed directly by 7 miles at goal pace helped me tremendously. I did it once during a final build (3 weeks out) and had tons of confidence knowing exactly what I could push on the bike and come off fresh.
Score me for limited value apart from training efficiency. It’s all personal and there is no right answer, but for me, the value of brick workouts decline each year I’m in the sport as my legs already know the deal. I’m not looking for familiarization with what it feels like; I’m not looking for confidence that I can do it; I’m not looking for a practice run; etc. So yeah, I agree with Velocibuddha that they aren’t that valuable as a “key workout.” I still do them occasionally but it’s not a big deal if I don’t get it in.
I do them at least once a week during base, and twice a week during build and peak.
For me, they are never junk miles, there’s always a very specific and important purpose in doing each brick. I don’t do them to get used to the feel of heavy legs after a ride (I’m already past that), but to get aerobically fit (base), to get my body used to run a fast running pace on very fatigued legs (build) and to tune-in my running race pace after a particularly nasty ride (peak).
After some time doing bricks, I’ve come to love and respect them as a very effective and flexible kind of training session. I’d hate to let a build period pass without doing a few brick intervals.
Everyday.
I swim like a brick
I run like I am carrying bricks
and I cycle as if my legs were heavy as bricks
If do them nearly every day. I run then I ride. I have to train at both events and don’t have to take two showers, but it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you think that doing a combo workout in training has some value on race day then I would disagree. The correct run and cycling training, along with correct pacing on the bike is the key to a successful run in multi-sport. No about of bike-run workouts will make up for lack of fitness. Plus, I hate running when my legs are fried, so I don’t do it.
Conventional wisdom says to do it one or twice a week after a bike session preferably within half an hour
Conventional wisdom needs to STFU
For beginners probably more valuable to do them a few times vs experienced triathletes. Some of my athletes first run off the bike have been in IM’s and that didn’t stop them from running sub 2:50 in an IM or posting some of their fastest ever tri run splits.
Running off the bike is a low level skill that once learned rarely needs to be refreshed.
Running fast in a triathlon is a fitness component. It’s hard to have too much run fitness.
In fact IDK if there has ever been a triathlete that has said “I’m too fit for the run right now, I should probably detrain a bit”. OTOH the # of triathletes that say “if only I had run faster I’d have done better” is enormous. That second group lacks run fitness.
The higher your run fitness the more likely you are to have a decent run when you screw up your bike pacing.
Most of those spouting conventional wisdom struggle with the delineation between the skill (running off the bike) and fitness component (more run fitness usually = faster run times).
I am surprised to hear you say that. I know you coach a lot of fast guys so obviously what you do works.
I understand that what works for one person not for another, but I pretty much only run after bike sessions, 4 times a week. I usually have the fastest run in my AG, and have finished first or second in my last few IM’s. Seems like most people can run off the bike in the race ok for the first half, and then they fall apart. The session that I think has let me even or neg split IM runs, is Saturday long ride with a 30-50min t run, then Sunday do another ride with some efforts and then the long run. Feels like the long run is starting on mile 10. Similarly, off the bike I am already warmed up and right our of the driveway doing quality. I only run 30-45 miles a week and want them all to count.
I should add that in open running races I can’t do sh!t anymore. When Istarted in IM 10 years ago and did not train this way I was still quick over 10k, but now 95% of miles are off the bike and Z2, I got nada in open running.
Couple of considerations.
If you are time crunched, brick’s are an efficient way to get both disciplines in if you are limited.
For more mature athletes I program in a sizable brick after long rides to work on endurance without the miles of running pounding. They have a shorter long run the next day.
I also do bricks just to mix it up. Maybe 1 to 2 a week. No one says you HAVE to do them, but it generally leads to a feeling of confidence to know what you will feel like after the bike during training.
i do them frequently, but only for the sake of time.
when im at work (i work offshore) ill typically hop on the bike for either thirty min or an hour depending on what my run is that day, then go right to the treadmill after changing out of my bike shorts and catch my run.
when im home bike or run being first is dictated by when i drag my lazy butt out of bed and how hot it is outside. if im up early enough i may go jog first to get my run in while its cool before the bike (reverse brick?), or if i wake up too late ill bike in the garage on the trainer then go to the gym and get on the treadmill which isnt a brick at all as it takes me a bit to get my crap together to get to the gym.