How my body responded to exercise in my fifties

Hi,

New member and first post:

I am/was a returning cyclist in my fifties and have often visited this forum to pick up tips on how to get fitter. Over the years I have seen a few requests for an example, so I thought I would share mine.

I want to show you the load response of my body, because it turned out to be a lot more interesting than I thought it would. I plotted my data in ways I have not seen before and it showed me:

           1) That for the first few years my maximum loading rate was ~5.3 minutes/week 
           2) That my easy ride power increased by ~6W for every hour per week of training 
           3) That my body was sensitive to HIIT 
  1. and 2) were evident by plotting the raw data, but could also be predicted with good accuracy by combining certain responses. Once you know these medium term relationships, you can look at things on shorter timescales and start to take a view on them.

My response data is in line with the advice you get from experienced coaches and physiologists: control your rate of loading (it is a year on year approach over many years), take rest seriously (although I will float an alternative view of rest), be consistent with loading (you can’t take weeks off), the higher the loading the fitter you get (so long as you can get your system in balance with the loading), be careful with intensity. I am not saying I achieved high levels of fitness, it is the detail of the transition to higher levels of fitness that I found interesting.

I am not a physiologist. I am more of an Engineering Physicist with some system control experience. Some of the language I use will be influenced by that, but hopefully the data and explanations to come will help to clarify things.

It is obvious that your body is a very complicated system. It can go wrong in a lot of ways, and some of those ways can lead to the loss of the system (i.e death). It is also a dynamic system: it is changing all the time in response to loading. I would assume that it is easy for the system to become unstable.

Therefore, you may take a view as to whether the system is unconditionally stable - that the rules for stability are evolved into the physiological responses of the cells and organs, and that it stays stable for the wide range of external conditions the system may be subject to - or that the system requires active control to stay stable. Biologists use the term homeostasis to describe the process of self regulation, and can point to certain regions of the brain that control certain processes. I suspect that this principle can be applied to all levels of function on all timescales.

I came to the view that the subconscious has significant control of the system, and uses its capabilities to exert control: clocks, memory, data processing, influence of thought and action, manipulation of the “reality” that the subconscious generates for the conscious to experience, and control of hormones (system promoting and inhibiting hormones, maybe also sensitising hormones).

Systems that are under active control generally show subtle signs of control when they are in balance and achieving control setpoints. When unusual conditions are met, stronger control interventions are required. In the following posts I will show you what I think is an obvious sign of system control on the scale of weeks, and how over the following months it rebalanced the system to align with a longer term relationship between load and capability.

I am not an expert in any field. You will have to take the data and any interpretations as you find them.

Safe riding

Oodac

Parts of this read like a character from a novel. Nice writing :slight_smile:

Parts of this read like a character from a novel. Nice writing :slight_smile:

The one thing I really enjoy about Slowtwitch is that people write actual sentences and use punctuation (other than Dan - please find your shift key).

People on places Facebook and Reddit write like illiterate 10 year olds. You don’t have to be Hemingway but for God sake, please just write an actual sentence.

Keep it to one thread and post multiple times there. Not separate ones.

Please and thank you.

Love,
Management

Ah - I see. Thank you for the guidance. I will re-arrange.

While you are busy rearranging, I had a question about your Loading Rate vs Load chart. What is the definition of ‘Loading Rate’? It was labeled ‘Hrs/year’, but the values didn’t make sense to me in that context. Is it the year-over-year increase in weekly hours?

Yes you are right - units are incorrect, good spot, thanks. It should read Hrs/wk/year - that would change week on week, because as you increase load you would need to decrease loading rate.

Great, will look forward to the rest of your posts.

From my end, I’ve been interested in modeling the HR vs power response on individual rides then tracking the coefficients to see if they possibly correlate/predict overtraining states or fitness levels. I thought especially the quickness of HR response may be a signal of training state (fresh vs overtrained). Reading your posts makes me realize the inadequacy of my modeling skills, ha.

Soooo, what happened? I’ve not been able to keep up with Slowtwitch very often, lately. I look into this and I’m missing the story, somewhere. I see a “~Post 5” out there, but it’s been deleted. I’m missing out here, and being in my 50’s, this would be super interesting to read / learn.

As a general comment - if anyone wants to comment, query, question, challenge or even argue - feel free. I doubt whether there will be any offence taken on my part.

As a general comment - if anyone wants to comment, query, question, challenge or even argue - feel free. I doubt whether there will be any offence taken on my part. what you’re asking fo oodac is squarely in the paid coaching space. consider a query in that vain. maybe an aspiring new coach looking to make a name for themselves will answer, but i’d not count on it. good luck!

As a general comment - if anyone wants to comment, query, question, challenge or even argue - feel free. I doubt whether there will be any offence taken on my part. what you’re asking fo oodac is squarely in the paid coaching space. consider a query in that vain. maybe an aspiring new coach looking to make a name for themselves will answer, but i’d not count on it. good luck!

Ha, I think the coaches should be paying attention to this to learn, not the other way around.

As a general comment - if anyone wants to comment, query, question, challenge or even argue - feel free. I doubt whether there will be any offence taken on my part. what you’re asking fo oodac is squarely in the paid coaching space. consider a query in that vain. maybe an aspiring new coach looking to make a name for themselves will answer, but i’d not count on it. good luck!

Ha, I think the coaches should be paying attention to this to learn, not the other way around.

I won’t lie - I’m waiting for the Sales Pitch to drop

I can guarantee the the pros reallly are that much more intrinsically gifted than amateurs. It’s absolutely not as simple as more hours incremented over long time. That only works if your ceiling is world class high. For 99.999 of amateurs this is not the case.

Define gifted.

I can guarantee the the pros reallly are that much more intrinsically gifted than amateurs. It’s absolutely not as simple as more hours incremented over long time. That only works if your ceiling is world class high. For 99.999 of amateurs this is not the case.

The framework he’s presenting does not disallow individual variation in talent levels. In particular you see that his progress became challenged at a relatively low hrs/wk, which lead him to the load vs ‘loading rate’ chart. Someone else would have a completely different curve. There’s several other parameters here that are highly individualized.

I can guarantee the the pros reallly are that much more intrinsically gifted than amateurs. It’s absolutely not as simple as more hours incremented over long time. That only works if your ceiling is world class high. For 99.999 of amateurs this is not the case.

The framework he’s presenting does not disallow individual variation in talent levels. In particular you see that his progress became challenged at a relatively low hrs/wk, which lead him to the load vs ‘loading rate’ chart. Someone else would have a completely different curve. There’s several other parameters here that are highly individualized.

True or not, I disagree with this statement of his. This statement (despite whatever his data are or are not showing) seems patently wrong to me, as it implies that maybe a professional didn’t have genetic advantages, and just slowly increased loading appropriately. I’ll say with high confidence that this statement is not true - professionals in endurance sports, at least in the current situation, have real genetic advantages, that self-present pretty early on once training starts, and continue with a much higher ceiling of potential than the amateur.

The club cyclist might think the professional has genetic advantages, but maybe he doesn’t. Maybe he has just slowly increased his loading, ensuring his system is responding appropriately along the way.

I’ll say with high confidence that this statement is not true - professionals in endurance sports, at least in the current situation, have real genetic advantages, that self-present pretty early on once training starts,

My anecdotal experience agrees. I was a pretty good HS miler with dreams of being elite for a while. In college 1500m I started going up against Africans who came to American colleges to train. And started getting my ass kicked. So I started trying to do their mileage. I couldn’t. My body would quickly break down. I’m confident there’s no possible loading rate that could let me achieve either their mileage nor their absolute performance level. None.

I’m also confident that they could have done my training load and still destroyed me.

How convenient that all the competitive personalities who took up the sport and decided to go for broke have the athletic genes, while all the amateurs and sofa homebodies have the bad genes.

Wouldn’t that be comforting

How convenient that all the competitive personalities who took up the sport and decided to go for broke have the athletic genes, while all the amateurs and sofa homebodies have the bad genes.

Wouldn’t that be comforting

I assume those people arguing lighttheir on this point are just having a bit of fun on the internet, not really serious.

But in the small chance you’re serious: when talking about truly elite levels of competition, having good genes is a necessary but not sufficient condition to reach that level. Being ruthlessly competitive and receptive to enormous training loads and being willing to set aside just about eveything else in your life is also a necessary but not sufficient condition.

When you combine these two, you get your Michael Phelpses.

Either one alone is a weekend warrior.

To be a once-in-a-generation record breaker? No doubt. But “not having Phelps genes” is not holding back anyone from being an elite triathlete

I think part of this is also having circumstances , for good or for bad , that permit you to focus on the sport rather than pursuing work or education options. Many but not all of the kids who reached really high levels that I recall did not exactly preference study and seemingly their families did not have any concern with that.

The best of them were not exactly bright.

Some managed to reach professionally well regarded degrees / positions eventually, though not right out of school, after doing a year or two of something with lower score requirements to get into, and then doing the blue chip path. People will hold different opinions on this topic