I put together a video on the in general requirements for training for an Ironman based on my experience working with triathletes (beginners, age groupers and professionals) over the last 15+ years. It realistically applies to an half Ironman as well. If anyone has any questions, I am more than happy to discuss.
Tim
Video
I am literally in my 40th year of racing and had to dial back run volume and intensity substantially, so now my swim volume is up to compensate.
I used to run 5-6 hrs per week off 6x sessions and swim 2-3 hrs for 2-4x session (his was in the context of full IM training, there was biking on top of that), now swim is 6-7 sessions 6-8 hrs per week run it 5-6 shorter sessions and a solid week is 3 hrs (this in the context of Olympic and half IM). I don’t think this is doable for full IM though as there is only so much time and energy in the week and bike and run volume are needed. Half IM, you can kind of get by on lower volume bike and run and go heavy on the swim as I find this really helps my aerobic since the average intensity swimming is highest and crosses over to the bike. Running you can’t fake. No amount of cutting back run to swim will help the run. That’s my general observation.
For a 20 hrs per week athlete, for sure doing 6-8 hrs per week in the pool still leaves 12 hrs for bike-run. But if you’re doing 12 hrs, and do 6-8 hrs in the pool, that barely leaves 4-6 hrs to bike-run. Is that enough to get through an Ironman? I would not want to find out, but have done several IM’s successfully during times I was doing 12-13 hrs but the swim was light and most of the time was bike-run.
I have seen another approach which is 8 hrs bike 2 hrs run, 2 hrs swim one week and the other week is 5 hrs swim, 6 hrs run and 2 hrs bike. So you end up with roughly 13 hrs per week but one week is heavy on swim run, the next week super light on swim-run but you ramp up bike.
This was a very helpful video.
For the average AGer you recommend 3-4k per session. How would you recommend the session be structured? Is that 3k of ‘work’ or does the 3k include some warm up and warm down? Am I also correct in assuming you wouldn’t recommend any reps longer than let’s say 200y?
Glad you liked it.
Yes, in general, that would be the recommendation. Structure would be a typical swim practice of warm up, lead up and main set. Sometimes you can drop the lead up and make the main set longer depending on the goal of the practice.
For triathletes, there’s generally nothing but downside in repeats longer than 200.
Tim
No amount of cutting back run to swim will help the run. That’s my general observation.
I’ve seen it work differently.
Tim
Great, thanks.
For S&C is that more of a core strength focus or pulling strength focus or both? And how important do you find flexibility/shoulder mobility to be?
It would be a comprehensive S&C program that compliments the swim training with particular emphasis on driving the neuromuscular connection in the movement. First and foremost you are training a movement and not VO2Max. VO2Max is a byproduct of the training and shouldn’t be the primary focus.
Tim
No amount of cutting back run to swim will help the run. That’s my general observation.
I’ve seen it work differently.
Tim
Tim, this is not a helpful answer in the sense you’re not saying what breakdown of adding more swim and cutting back the run will help the run. Rather than “I know something that you don’t know” how about sharing rough breakdowns.
The video was good but it was in isolation of an age groupers available hours to do all three sports. I am firmly in the camp of swimming more, but skimping on running only works to a tipping point. The 2 hrs running per week athlete who swims a lot may not be doing enough run to do a good ironman. It depends on the starting point for run training. The guy doing 8 hrs running and 2 hrs swimming, sure, that person can likely cut back run to 5 hrs and do 5 hrs of swim and benefit. But the athlete doing low volume running going lower yet to swim more may suffer during the run.
The argument I’m making is what does the training look like, in general, for an athlete (beginner, age grouper, pro) to be successful in the swim. Success being relative to each category. Triathletes with the swim are usually unrealistic in terms of what the training looks like to achieve success and what’s possible. I’m giving context so athletes can have a better understanding and expectations.
You reframed the argument based on total hours needed to train for a triathlon. Then pick and choose what parts of the video you want to highlight. So you’re saying I said 5 hours a week of swim, yes, if you want to be competitive. If you are looking to complete, it can be a lot less. We are talking apples and oranges. You are also talking about what generally worked for you and I’m talking about what I’ve seen work for the 1000+ athletes who I’ve worked with.
In terms of the quotation from your post, you made a definitive statement. In my experience, I don’t agree with it.
I hope this helps,
Tim
Thank you for confirming what I’ve argued with my Masters coach about for years.
I’ve always thought those sets of 6x400 or 800 repeats were stupid and just reenforced sloppy technique.
Cool video, thanks, seems in line with what I’ve seen reported from the ‘typical’ AGer or pro. (Of course, there’s always that one ex-collegiate dude who swims FOP on 1x swim per week 2000yds…)
I actually was wondering what everyone was wearing, first time I’ve learned about ‘swim mitts’. I just ordered a set, because I haven’t been able to use my paddles as much as I’d like due to worry that I’ll smack the person in the lane over with that bladelike paddle, but I shouldn’t have that problem with the mitts, so I can add more resistance to my pulls!
Welcome. There are still a lot of coaches who haven’t gotten the memo. Swimming is changing fairly dramatically in terms of training. I’m fairly certain the top 3 men in the 50 Free at the Olympics all trained less than 10k a week.
Tim
The argument I’m making is what does the training look like, in general, for an athlete (beginner, age grouper, pro) to be successful in the swim. Success being relative to each category. Triathletes with the swim are usually unrealistic in terms of what the training looks like to achieve success and what’s possible. I’m giving context so athletes can have a better understanding and expectations.
You reframed the argument based on total hours needed to train for a triathlon. Then pick and choose what parts of the video you want to highlight. So you’re saying I said 5 hours a week of swim, yes, if you want to be competitive. If you are looking to complete, it can be a lot less. We are talking apples and oranges. You are also talking about what generally worked for you and I’m talking about what I’ve seen work for the 1000+ athletes who I’ve worked with.
In terms of the quotation from your post, you made a definitive statement. In my experience, I don’t agree with it.
I hope this helps,
Tim
Hi Tim I am generally in agreement with everything you are saying. While I gave some examples from my experience it was only because I should not speak for others who I have also seen trying to trade off bike run hours versus swim hours. I generally agree that triathletes will benefit from more weighting of swim hours and cut back on bike and run hours if time and energy limited
I think the challenge that many face is simple access to swim hours. Getting to the pool just takes more overhead so most triathlete capitulate to running or biking out the front door.
Also my statement of no amount of swimming helping running should be qualified with the running program being low volume while doing high volume swimming. Does that make sense. A half or full marathon is a long way and you need time on feet. If time limited I would suggest high volume swim moderate volume run and dial back on endless bike miles where there is no technical skill being gained either. Swim and run you get to refine technique with every stroke or step. Biking is just exercise. Limited skill refinement and crossover from swim to bike is pretty decent (assuming actually kicking not endless pull buoy or wetsuit swimming)
Thanks. And this is in general and just “yardage” and frequency. Not every yard is created the same. In rare cases, I’ve been able to get athletes better and very competitive on 3x a week. The training is brutal and can’t be sustained for a very long time, but you can do it.
If you want any more Aquavolo gear, next time let me know and I’ve got a discount code with them that I could share.
Tim
I wasn’t talking about a complete triathlon training program although I think most triathletes, especially beginners, would benefit from a very heavy, front loaded amount of swim training. Like you said on the spectrum of skill, swim is at one end and cycling is on the other.
I don’t disagree that the swim can be the most logistically difficult. Again, I wanted the video to represent what the general minimums I’ve seen needed to be successful at each level of the sport depending on your goals.
One of the biggest insights I had around the importance of the swim for the whole triathlon was when I did a break down of all the athletes from the Houston area who competed in IMTX and their swim times and then their overall time. The athletes who swam slower than 1h30m were orders of magnitude less likely to finish the overall race than athletes who went faster.
Tim
Hi Tim, excellent to the point video. Thank you. Sorry for this question, which is about “volume”. When you say something like “3,500 to 5,000” per week, what does that mean? Is it 3,500 to 5,000 yards per week? Thanks!
The only place in the video where I mention 3,500 - 5,000 is for the competitive age grouper and that is per practice. The frequency is 4x - 6x a week and volume would be 15k-20k per week.
I hope this helps. Is that what you were referring to?
Tim
One of the biggest insights I had around the importance of the swim for the whole triathlon was when I did a break down of all the athletes from the Houston area who competed in IMTX and their swim times and then their overall time. The athletes who swam slower than 1h30m were orders of magnitude less likely to finish the overall race than athletes who went faster.
Tim
Haven’t watched the video yet, looking forward to it, but there’s definitely a correlation (not causation) of the slowest swimmers also being poor cyclists and runners.
Yes, it speaks to a lack of training in general. But the interesting thing about the results was even poor cyclists and runners who finished faster than 1h30m in the swim were more likely to finish than slower swimmers.
Tim
Thanks. I was just using the “3,500 - 5,000” as a general example, as you provided different number ranges. But my question concerned my misunderstanding of the word “volume”. By the word, do you mean yards? As in, “swim a volume of 6000 to 9000” means 6000 to 9000 yards? Sorry for the confusion and that you!