I’ve been using Endurolytes, and they recommend 3-4 per hour. That’s 300-400mg per hour.
At IMCDA, Dave Scott got this question and he said he thinks the bare minimum is 600mg per hour, and he knows athletes that take 3,000mg per hour. Paul Huddle told me he uses up to 4,000mg per hour on hot days.
All I can say is, it seems I am WAY under fueled when it come to electrolytes.
What is everyone’s experience?
Actually Endurolytes have 100mg of NaCl per capsule which is only about 40mg of sodium. So, you are actually only getting 120-160 mg of Sodium in 3-4 capsules. I figured this out after cramping severly from electrolyte deficiency during a 1/2 IM last year. I am pretty dissappointed that the e-caps people would choose to report the sodium content this way on their label, when all of their other products list pure sodium content, not sodium chloride. I will continue to buy their drinks but not Endurolytes.
dave
I’ve been using Endurolytes, and they recommend 3-4 per hour. That’s 300-400mg per hour.
At IMCDA, Dave Scott got this question and he said he thinks the bare minimum is 600mg per hour, and he knows athletes that take 3,000mg per hour. Paul Huddle told me he uses up to 4,000mg per hour on hot days.
All I can say is, it seems I am WAY under fueled when it come to electrolytes.
What is everyone’s experience?
HOLY CRAP. You are kidding me. Now I’m pissed at them too. I think they are missing the boat on how much sodium is needed.
Thanks for the info.
I have been taking 1-2 Lava Salts per hour, and using gels and drinks that have additional electolytes in them(accelerade). But I doubt I’m taking in much more than 300-400 mg/hour average. That seems to provide a noticable lessening of fatigue on longer runs/rides.
I’m no expert on the subject, but most of what I have read indicates that the average person loses 2000-4000 mg sodium/salt per day, and can lose another 200-400 mg per hour sweating. The qualifier “average” leads me to the conclusion that you need to find out what works for you and use it.
4,000mg per hour? That sounds incredibly high to me. I can’t see myself popping 20 Lava Salts per hour, or more than two bottles over the course of an IM distance race. I don’t know where I’d carry all those pills, and don’t know how I would carry that much premixed drink with me on an IM bike.
I have read that sweat may have over 1000mg of sdoium per liter. Personally, I easily can lose more than a liter per hour during a hot race. I have lost 1.5 liters (estimated by 3 lbs body weight lost) in a 1 hour air-conditioned spin class. However, just like fluids and calories, I believe the body can only absorb so much per hour. You will have to experiment, but I know 400 mg per hour is too low for me. On the other hand 3000mg seems to be too much. Perhaps some take in 3000mg NaCl, but I doubt 3000mg of pure sodium would be necessary.
dave
I have been taking 1-2 Lava Salts per hour, and using gels and drinks that have additional electolytes in them(accelerade). But I doubt I’m taking in much more than 300-400 mg/hour average. That seems to provide a noticable lessening of fatigue on longer runs/rides.
I’m no expert on the subject, but most of what I have read indicates that the average person loses 2000-4000 mg sodium/salt per day, and can lose another 200-400 mg per hour sweating. The qualifier “average” leads me to the conclusion that you need to find out what works for you and use it.
4,000mg per hour? That sounds incredibly high to me. I can’t see myself popping 20 Lava Salts per hour, or more than two bottles over the course of an IM distance race. I don’t know where I’d carry all those pills, and don’t know how I would carry that much premixed drink with me on an IM bike.
Rather than using all of these designer overpriced products, I use a teaspoon of regular tablesalt in each large bottle of Gatorade in a half Ironman (each bottle also has two large scoops of Gatorade in it, which is reasonably high in Na compared to other sport drinks). I drink three of these large bottles over the course of the bike and early in the run. I also take in a powerbar and three to 5 gels over the course of the day. Both products have sodium. I’d need the labels to calculate the precise total of sodium for all of the above, but you can do the math. That usually hold me over with no cramps even in the hottest of hot days. Then again, I don’t have a huge sweat rate and I am only 5’6" 140 lbs.
The point of Endurolytes is that they contain all the other salts as well as sodium. Potassium, magnesium and calcium are also important to muscle contraction. There’s also some vit. B which is part of the energy cycle. That said, almost all the stuff in Endurolyte is super cheap and $18 is a outrageous price.
Your explanation makes sense. I lose about 1-1.5 liters per hour, depending on the heat. I think that in endurance racing, it is inevitable that you will become depleted over time, as your body can’t absorb fuel/nutrients as fast as you burn/expel them. The best you can do is delay the inevitable.
I haven’t really tried to find out what the maximum amount of salt to take is for me. I have just taken the recommended amount, which is 1-2 per hour depending on the heat, and as I said, I use gels like Accel Gel and Accelerade, which also contain electrolytes.
Given how much I have learned about this sport in the short time I have been participating, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if, in the next couple of years, we learned a basic formula for how much salt you should take in while racing, for those who can’t afford to have their sweat rate and sodium loss measured in the lab.
Perhaps the guys taking 3,000 mg’s are assuming that a certain amount is not absorbed by their systems, or figure it’s a low risk hedge against fading near the end.
Morton’s Lite Salt has Potassium and a few other trace minerals.
Someone else mentioned this last time I followed a sodium thread. I found out later that Morton’s Lite is basically 50% Potassium Chloride and 50% Sodium Chloride. 1/4 tsp yields 350mg Potassium and 290 mg Sodium. Supposedly, you should replace 3 or more times as much Sodium as Potassium, so the balance is off. But, I do not know whether or not excess Potassium would cause any problems.
dave
Morton’s Lite Salt has Potassium and a few other trace minerals.
I take about 1000mg of Na per hour.
If you add a 1/4 teaspoon of table salt to a quart of gatorade you’ll get about 1000mg of Na. This will likely come close to matching sweat concentration as far as sodium. Apply your own disclaimer here.
Oh, yeah and Endurolytes are not salt tablets. 40mg of Na is a joke.
-mike
I just read on Gordo’s website that he recommends 1,000mg of sodium per hour. But also says you need to experiment.
Well, for sure what I’ve been taking is not near enough. I think I will start my experiment with 1000mg/hr and see how it goes. I live in Texas, so I have a heat lab nearby. 
I emailed the guys at eCaps and got a long response from Steve Born. They profess a low sodium approach and believe science is on their side.
Here’s the email from Steve:
Hello Michael -
The topic of sodium replenishment during exercise has been hotly
debated for years, with many theories being presented. The most compelling one that
I have read and applied with tremendous success in my own training over
the years is based on Dr. Bill Misner’s research, which suggests that a
more moderate, body mechanism-cooperative approach is most appropriate. You
can access this well-researched, science-based article on our web site.
Click on
this link…
www.e-caps.com/knowledge/index.cfm?template=endurancelib&div=Endurance%20Library
… and it will be the last choice available (“Why a low sodium
electrolyte
replacement”). I think you’ll find this article to be of interest.
In layman’s terms, what I can offer you is this:
1.) All athletes have a huge reservoir of sodium/salt in body tissues -
something to the effect of nearly 8000 - 10000 mg - which the body will
use during exercise. In other words, you already have a huge amount of
sodium in your body, which will, at least partially, satisfy your body’s
requirements during exercise.
2.) Sodium losses are indeed great, especially if the athlete is unfit
or
unacclimated, and will be most realized at the onset of exercise.
Fortunately, the body, knowing that it cannot replenish calories,
fluids, or
electrolytes at the same rate that it’s being depleted, has a
marvelously intricate and efficient “checks and balance” system already in place.
In regards to sodium it utilizes the hormone aldosterone, which basically
monitors serum sodium levels and, when sensing that levels are getting
too low, re-circulates sodium back into the blood via a very complex set of
mechanisms through the liver.
3.) Now, even though the body will re-circulate sodium back into the
blood for maintaining homeostasis, it still needs a replenishment dose. The
key is to provide a dose that augments, enhances, and cooperates with the
functions of aldosterone, not a dose that overrides it. When the body senses a
too-high exogenous donation of salt the functions of aldosterone are
neutralized and another hormone, vasopressin predominates. Vasopressin
will actually cause the body NOT to re-circulate sodium but rather excrete
it at higher rates. In addition, aldosterone, which is also called the
anti-diuretic hormone, will cause edema-like symptoms in the body,
which are manifested in swollen hands, wrists, feet, ankles, and face. Athletes
who finish lengthy workouts or races exhibiting these symptoms have most
likely over-salted their bodies. Their too-high dose of sodium, instead of
helping their performance, has hindered or ruined it.
The key thing to remember Michael, and this is true for fluid and
calories as well as electrolytes, is that the body cannot accept a donation that
comes close to matching depletion rates. Fortunately, the body “knows”
that it can’t, which is why it has all these complex mechanisms in place to
protect itself. As Dr. Misner writes,
"To suggest that fluids, sodium,
and fuels-induced glycogen replenishment can happen at the same rate as it
is spent during exercise is simply not true. Endurance exercise beyond 1-2
hours is a deficit spending entity, with proportionate return or
replenishment always in arrears. The endurance exercise outcome is to
postpone fatigue, not to replace all the fuel, fluids, and electrolytes
lost during the event. It can’t be done, though many of us have tried.”
All this being said, I respectfully disagree with the athletes and
coaches that recommend such high intakes of sodium during exercise and I truly
believe that athletes who attempt to replenish sodium at these
extremely high rates are not enhancing their performance but rather hindering it.
I believe science, as well as my own experiences over the years, suggests
that a more moderate, body mechanism cooperative consumption of sodium is
more appropriate. For example, I completed an ultra marathon cycling record
which saw me on my bike for over 75 hours (I did a Double Furnace Creek 508).
Not once during the entire attempt (which took place in the Mojave Desert,
albeit in October… it was still quite warm) did I ever consume more
than 6 Endurolytes hourly, a salt donation of 600 mg (240 mg elemental sodium,
360 mg elemental chloride). I never had any cramping problems, I never had
any issues that would suggest my electrolyte intake was insufficient, and I
enjoyed good performance (and set a record) as a result.
Anyway, I hope this information - and especially Dr. Misner’s article -
will provide good information for you Michael. I have CC’d Dr. Bill for any
comments he may wish to make. If you have any questions or need further
information please don’t hesitate to email either of us.
Good luck in your training and racing!
Sincerely -
Steve Born
Senior Technical Advisor
Event/Athlete Sponsorship Coordinator
www.e-caps.com
1-800-336-1977
I don’t necessarily disagree with Mr. Born, because I don’t have the background to argue sports nutrition with anyone. However, it does not change the fact that:
Listing the Sodium Chloride content in lieu of sodium content is misleading at first glance, especially since the standard nutritional guide lists sodium, including those on all of e-caps’ other products.
Just because an elite athlete like Mr. Born can get by with 6 endurloytes per hour doesn’t mean we all can, nor does it justify the 2-3 they recommend on their website. If I need 1000mg per hour to ward off cramps, I sure don’t want it get by popping 25 Endurolytes per hour.
Let me restate that I have been very pleased with their sports drinks, the only problem I have with the e-caps people is the way they market the Endurolytes. Thanks for posting your letter nonetheless.
dave
I’m with you on using regular table salt. A lot easier for me to calculate. I mix it into my drink bottles and I’m good to go. For back up I take a few salt packs at McD’s and keep them in my back in a zip lock bag along with some other anti-cramping tablets (potassium, magnesium). I’ve also started to mix all this stuff in heavy concetration in a Gu gel bottle that I carry in my fanny running pack. I take a little in regular intervals and shoot some in my mouth whenever I feel the slighest cramping coming on. I’ve use this successfully the past two seasons.
Thanks Paul I will try it this weekend at Musselman.
Thom