I have a Tri bike, but am considering getting another bike for group rides and other slightly more casual riding.
My question is, if the bikes are otherwise equivalent (let’s say a CAAD10 vs a CAADX), how much slower will I be on a road group ride on the CAADX? It seems to me like the only real difference (meaning, what will make a real difference in road riding speed) are the tires. How much slower will a set of 35mm tires be than the standard 23mm on a road bike?
Also, I’ve considered a gravel bike, such as the Kona Rove or Salsa Vaya which would be a little more upright and wide tires. Any idea how much slower that would be than a standard road bike?
I want something a little more “go-anywhere” based on where I live, something that’s a little more comfortable, but I also want to make sure I can keep up with those that I ride with on a regular basis.
As far as getting a CAADX, throwing road wheels on it with 23’s, and then keeping up on a group ride? Probably won’t be a problem. But a cross bike has a lot of compromises - which may not be too much of a problem for you if you really want to use it in gravel and offroad. With a Kona or Salsa, you’d be hard pressed to keep up on a group ride. Maybe if you were a CAT1 cyclist and everyone else was in elementary school.
significantly, especially uphill and acceleration. if you could average about 20mph on a roadie with 23mm tires, you’d probably go 16-18mph on 35s depending on the terrain. I have some experience with this I currently ride a cross bike with road wheels on it but have done some road rides with the cross wheels.
Disclaimer- There are many other factors to consider such as what position you want to be in. I think for the majority of people these bikes are a lot of fun, easy gearing, easy on your body, forgiveness for some rookie mistakes, disk brakes can be better if set up properly, but that I really think the ultimate in terms of speed/forgiveness is something like a Giant TCR or a Trek Domane with 28s.
As far as getting a CAADX, throwing road wheels on it with 23’s, and then keeping up on a group ride? Probably won’t be a problem. But a cross bike has a lot of compromises - which may not be too much of a problem for you if you really want to use it in gravel and offroad. With a Kona or Salsa, you’d be hard pressed to keep up on a group ride. Maybe if you were a CAT1 cyclist and everyone else was in elementary school.
Yes, I did see that thread. It didn’t discuss specifically how much slower the CAADX would be on the road than the CAAD10. Let’s say they are both stock bikes (wheels, tires, etc.). Will the CAADX be 10% slower at the same exertion level? 2%? 5%? 15%? Anybody have any knowledge on that.
I’m only using the CAAD line because it was easy to do. This goes for all other competitors, but I figure the number would be similar.
Maybe the question about whether I could keep up is hard because everyone’s group ride is a little different. The guys that I would want to ride with aren’t doing a group ride to get a bunch of hard interval work in and really work on their racing. They are touring, out to ride and get a good 2 hour ride in on the weekend to enjoy the outdoors and get a workout. So, if they are going 16 mph and I’m losing 10% based on the bike, I can push a little harder and make up that extra difference.
And as far as the Salsa or Kona - I’m curious how much slower - again in some sort of ballpark percentage? I have a couple group rides that I can do, and one of them I am definitely faster than those folks. They also tend to make it more of a relaxed ride. I am fine pushing it and getting a workout in on a “slower” bike. I’m just curious how much slower those bikes will be…
i can keep up on group rides on my cross bike…IF I put my road wheels (23mm) on it. Otherwise I get dropped.
Ive told several people if they can only afford 1 bike between a cx bike and road bike, but want to participate in both disciplines, then get a cx bike and a spare set of road tires.
Like another poster said, a road bike in a cross race would be either painful for you or the bike…or both.
~60 miles with 40 of those miles on dirt/gravel. Was fortunate enough to make the lead group of ~15, where probably 2/3’s of the people had road bikes w/23-25c tires, and the rest had CX bikes with file treads. On that day, it seemed the road bikes had a slight advantage albeit with the cost of a higher chance of flatting, but all it would have taken was a bit of rain to shift the advantage towards the CXers. Point is, the two options were fairly close performance-wise.
PS I highly recommend both the Dirty40 as well as their Spring option the Rasputista on Apr 19th to anyone living in the Northeast.
It is nearly impossiblet to quantify the difference in speed but it probably has more to do with how fast you are on a bike and how fast your group is. If your group is a 16-18 mph kind of group and you can easily ride with a 20+mph group with 23cm tires, you will be fine hanging with you 16-18mph group on a cross bike with 35mm tires - just make sure you inflate them fully. If you already ride with a 20mph kind of group, you might struggle with 35mm tires unless you can hang with even faster guys. The easy solution is to get a cross bike and take 10 minutes to slap on some 23cm tires when you want to go fast. Cross bikes are great “do it all” bikes.
Swapping the cranks into the 50/36 realm and going with 23 or 25mm tires will make the biggest difference. Your big compromise will be the position you will be in. At least for me, I sit way more upright on my CX bike. Getting a good aero position for when the pace goes up will be difficult.
If I could own only one bike, it would be a CX bike. But, I have the CX illness.
Getting a cross bike is a good idea. Very versatile, and good if there are a lot of dirt roads around. But you’d want to get a second wheelset and put 23’s or road tires on it, and probably a second cassette to make swapping easy. I did this for my cross bike, and it works great. For my cross bike, I was able to get a nice second wheelset for 75% off and put on 23’s and it’s great.
I also have a road bike. I use the cross bike with road tires for early or late season rides. I swap on the cross wheels for cross, dirt roads, gravel paths, etc.
With cross tires, I am 3 mph slower on solo rides at comparable effort. Climbing is even worse, 4 mph slower at least.
The other thing to consider is the gearing: up front, having a 46/36 or a 48/36 chainring takes off the top end speed of a 50 or 53. You can mitigate this with an 11 small cog on the cassette for regular road tires.
And as far as the Salsa or Kona - I’m curious how much slower - again in some sort of ballpark percentage? I have a couple group rides that I can do, and one of them I am definitely faster than those folks. They also tend to make it more of a relaxed ride. ** I am fine pushing it and getting a workout in on a “slower” bike. I’m just curious how much slower those bikes will be…**
This is fine, however, at times you may regret your choice and the $$$ spent for a “slower” bike.
Go with a good CX bike, swap tires as needed, and merely adjust your efforts to group dynamics.
~60 miles with 40 of those miles on dirt/gravel. Was fortunate enough to make the lead group of ~15, where probably 2/3’s of the people had road bikes w/23-25c tires, and the rest had CX bikes with file treads. On that day, it seemed the road bikes had a slight advantage albeit with the cost of a higher chance of flatting, but all it would have taken was a bit of rain to shift the advantage towards the CXers. Point is, the two options were fairly close performance-wise.
PS I highly recommend both the Dirty40 as well as their Spring option the Rasputista on Apr 19th to anyone living in the Northeast.
Hey, I was in that race too - in the front group on a road bike with 25mm pro3race tires. I thought my setup was ideal for that race on that day.
I don’t think I give up very much using my specialized crux cx bike compared to my road bike on pavement - assuming I put fast tires on. I wouldn’t have a problem doing a road race with my crux if I had to.
I can’t give you hard numbers, I don’t think anyone can, but here’s my experience. For group rides I put on 28c Conti GP4000 4 seasons and I’m not noticeably slower than on a road bike, on rides with my wife I put on 34c bontrager cross tires and she can just keep up with me. It will depend on the size of your group though. If you’re riding in a huge peleton the additional rolling resistance will be more noticeable than if you’re riding with 3 other guys.
The one thing to pay attention to if you’re looking to use a cross bike more like a road bike is brakes. You want a bike that either has disk brakes, or one that mounts the cable stop for the front brake to the fork crown rather than above the headtube. Bikes with canti brakes and the headtube mounted cable stop had a lot of chatter under heavy braking when I test rode them. It comes from the fork flexing and relieving tension on the cable, then the fork unflexes because the brakes release a little, which causes the cable to tighten a little, brakes depress, fork flexes again, etc.
A cross bike like you’re talking about will not be slower if properly equipped.
First, the geometry is virtually the same.
Most cross bikes are being sold w/ a 46/36 crank and 11/28 cassette. You could replace that big ring w/ a 50t (like what’s on my road bike) if you felt like you’re lagging behind, but 46/11 is pretty high gearing, so it likely won’t be a problem.
You’ll want to make sure you buy a bike w/ “canti” or “v-brakes” that engage the rim so all your road wheels are easily interchangeable. Disc brakes have gotten popular in cross. If you buy a disc specific frame, you won’t be able to switch a standard road wheel onto it. It’ll have to be a disc road wheel.
Most (if not all) of the reason a cross bike will be slower is the knobby tires you need to grind through the mud. So, buy clinchers. Then you just change that 32mm cross tire w/ a 23mm road tire. Voila. Or you could just slide the wheels from your tribike into the cross frame. Lots of options.
You can convert a cross bike into a capable road bike really easily, but you cannot convert a road easily into cross. I’ve seen several guys in crits racing properly adapted cross bikes. It’s not likely you’ll miss a beat.
Awesome…one of the Tall Tree guys? You guys were putting the hurt on for sure. Thought it was going to be more of a jaunt then a race. That went out the window on that first climb.
Awesome…one of the Tall Tree guys? You guys were putting the hurt on for sure. Thought it was going to be more of a jaunt then a race. That went out the window on that first climb.
Yeah, I’m one of the Tall Tree guys. I thought it was a great race with the exception of the traffic lights being in play! I was off the front with a teammate on the last hard climb and had to wait for cars at two intersections, with things unfortunately regrouping at the red light. Then I got cut-off in the finish and settled for second (the finish area was confusing if you didn’t scout it first - the guy who cut me off obviously didn’t pre-ride it!) . Awesome race for a first year event - hopefully I’ll make it to their “spring classic”.
The cross bike is fine for group rides
Didn’t Thomas Frishneckt ride the Olympic road race for Switzerland in 2000 on his cross bike? He finished in the bunch
I ride a 17-lb Scott Addict road bike w 23s & a 24-25 lb Jamis touring bike w 32mm knobbies. The diff. might be 1.5-2 mph on flat pavement. I want to get some 35 mm Happy medium tires for the Jamis, but I doubt that’ll make it much faster.
It also matters which cx bike you are comparing to a typical road bike. Some 'cross bikes have very poor geometry for road (and cx for that matter) and some are much more suitable for road.
You also have to factor in what size cx bike you are looking at. Cannondale, and many other companies (including Kona) take short-cuts by not offering different fork rakes for different sizes. As sizes get smaller, normally 54cm and lower, the HTAs normally get shallower, but many companies don’t offer higher fork rakes - this increases the trail number and will make the bike handle sluggish on the road.
I have a specialized crux, and they spec 3 different fork rakes to compensate for the shallower HTAs as the sizes get smaller.
Other geometry considerations are: BB drop, chainstay length, headtube length, and so on…
I have a roadie sized big ring on my cross bike, so when I swap out my gravel wheels with roadie wheels and a 11-23 cassette, I don’t see much of a difference on the road.
