Over a full wetsuit of the same brand in a 1.2 swim? All other things being equal of course…both well fitting, etc… 1 minute? If we need a pace, how about a 1:30 pace swimmer?
Over a full wetsuit of the same brand in a 1.2 swim? All other things being equal of course…both well fitting, etc… 1 minute? If we need a pace, how about a 1:30 pace swimmer?
It could actually be faster. People will reply on here and poo poo them, but there is a reason why many people, and some pros choose to wear sleeveless. It really depends on many things, but if you overheat or sweat too much in a full-sleeve, then they can wreck havoc on your race. They can be faster than a sleeved suit in just the water, and they can be even faster if you factor in how they can play a pivotal role in you race as a whole. I wouldn’t sweat sleeveless over a sleeved suit.
I swim the same pace in both suit types. Though I think the full sleeve suit doesn’t fit properly as my shoulders fatigue easily, but over the same distance and all things being equal I’m just as fast in the sleeveless and my shoulders feel great during and after the swim.
I’d have to say I like the answers, mostly because I plan to use the well-fitted sleeveless in an upcoming race! 
However, with all of the historical commentary on this forum (and others) about a full wetsuit being faster, I was wondering if anyone had any reasonable data to share…on how many seconds or minutes I was leaving on the table in HIM swim…thanks!
I’d have to say I like the answers, mostly because I plan to use the well-fitted sleeveless in an upcoming race!
However, with all of the historical commentary on this forum (and others) about a full wetsuit being faster, I was wondering if anyone had any reasonable data to share…on how many seconds or minutes I was leaving on the table in HIM swim…thanks!
http://www.dobkanize.com/gear-testing/wetsuit-gear-testing-nerd-version/
The Full Suit was superior to the sleeveless wetsuit. In an Olympic distance triathlon, a Full Suit improves your time by a huge 1 minute 23 seconds. The benefit for a Fast Skin is 16 seconds for the same distance.
Actually looks like they found that the difference between full and sleeveless was less than 1 second per 100 with one swimmer and over 3 seconds per 100 for the other.
I imagine the learning curve with a full suit is much steeper than with a sleeveless wetsuit. Meaning that a full suit user ought to spend considerably more time acclimating and training with a full suit.
IMHO - if you wear a wetsuit for racing only once in a while a sleeveless suit might be better. But if you regularly train wearing a wetsuit a full suit is going to be faster. (Not accounting for overheating possibilities.)
David K
I’d have to say I like the answers, mostly because I plan to use the well-fitted sleeveless in an upcoming race!
However, with all of the historical commentary on this forum (and others) about a full wetsuit being faster, I was wondering if anyone had any reasonable data to share…on how many seconds or minutes I was leaving on the table in HIM swim…thanks!
http://www.dobkanize.com/gear-testing/wetsuit-gear-testing-nerd-version/
The Full Suit was superior to the sleeveless wetsuit. In an Olympic distance triathlon, a Full Suit improves your time by a huge 1 minute 23 seconds. The benefit for a Fast Skin is 16 seconds for the same distance.
First off I have no idea on legality of wearing the DeSoto pants if a wetsuit is mandatory. Also, not exactly answering your question, but more of an option in case you find comfort issues either in fit or heat. I cannot tolerate full wetsuit heat unless it’s sub 70* I just overheat too quickly. I tried a Huub some time ago in a lake here in Florida in the spring time while it was still chilly out, but on a 1 mile swim I about died by the end. SUCH a fast suit and it didn’t even fit that well. I’d guess a full 5 seconds/100. I recently tried a pair of the DeSoto pants and mind you it’s the dead of summer in Florida. Early morning lake swim and if the DeSoto’s are slower it’s by such a small amount I’m not sure I’d even care. Something about having access to water on my torso just keeps the heat build up tolerable. Felt a bit warm, but not nauseous or anything like a full would make me. I’m a profuse sweater so my issues are probably not the norm and my body is used to 78* pool water as well.
Point being I think for me anyway the DeSoto pants are so close to the Huub I tried I’d not even give it a second thought speed wise. Just something to consider if you find comfort issues with heat or fit. Good luck in your search!
Actually looks like they found that the difference between full and sleeveless was less than 1 second per 100 with one swimmer and over 3 seconds per 100 for the other.
I imagine the learning curve with a full suit is much steeper than with a sleeveless wetsuit. Meaning that a full suit user ought to spend considerably more time acclimating and training with a full suit.
IMHO - if you wear a wetsuit for racing only once in a while a sleeveless suit might be better. But if you regularly train wearing a wetsuit a full suit is going to be faster. (Not accounting for overheating possibilities.)
David K
I was quoting the study.
You’re kidding, right? If your suit fits it’s pretty much transparent that you’re wearing it. If you feel odd and need to practice, then your suit doesn’t fit right.
The only reason I got a sleeveless suit was for temps above 70 and distances over 1 mile. Below 70 and/or under a mile if it’s legal, I’m in full suit. I wear the thing two/three times a year, only at races, and there is no learning curve.
Slowman and Monty tested this once, IIRC. I believe they found it was about :02/100m faster w/ sleeves.
YMMV (Your Meters May Vary).
I know for a rockfish like me, I want as much rubber on me in the water as is legally allowed.
More floaty is more better!
God, I miss my Water Rover…
Nope, not kidding at all. There are swimmers that have trouble using full suits. Whether its due to their ability to achieve a proper fit or lack of practice or whatever. Not that it means a lot but an example nonetheless - Last weekend at USAT Age Group Nationals a top 5 swimmer switched from full to sleeveless the morning of the event by cutting the arms off his full suit.
I think the quote you provided was originally poorly written. I think they are trying to state that they found a 1:23 difference between using a full suit and jammers and not between a full suit and a sleeveless suit.
David K
I’ve got a DeSoto suit and both the sleeveless and sleeved top. I’ve never done formal testing but 2 years ago at Lake Logan olympic I swam low 24’s with the sleeveless. Swam high 24’s sleeved this year
Lots of factors involved I know but I think comfort plays a BIG role for me. My shoulders don’t feel terribly impinged full sleeve and I’m comfortable but I’m really comfy sleeveless. I prefer it
There are some good responses here, with some good feedback.
The results will vary from person to person. How much are the sleeves worth in terms of time? Do you have a benchmark for either? You say that you are a 1:30 swimmer but have you swam longer distances in both?
The reason we push a proper fitting full sleeve suit are the benefits of the coated neoprene. You increase buoyancy and decrease drag, and in a way you provide yourself with a wider “paddle” in the pull phase of the stroke with the added girth of your forearm.
Is a full sleeve faster every time? On paper, yes. In reality, not necessarily.
A proper fit is a factor that could be debated, and can most definitely effect the benefits of a full sleeve suit. Additionally, putting the suit on correctly is a big factor.
If you overheat, then a sleeveless may be your better option.
What makes you want to go sleeveless over a longer distance?
jake
Over a full wetsuit of the same brand in a 1.2 swim? All other things being equal of course…both well fitting, etc… 1 minute? If we need a pace, how about a 1:30 pace swimmer?
It could actually be faster. People will reply on here and poo poo them, but there is a reason why many people, and some pros choose to wear sleeveless. It really depends on many things, but if you overheat or sweat too much in a full-sleeve, then they can wreck havoc on your race. They can be faster than a sleeved suit in just the water, and they can be even faster if you factor in how they can play a pivotal role in you race as a whole. I wouldn’t sweat sleeveless over a sleeved suit.
But the counter argument for someone like you is…yes, it could play a pivotal factor in your race. You arent a front pack swimmer and cant afford to make the mistake of wearing a sleeveless when the faster guys are on fullsleeve. Taking heat, and other factor aside, we are talking 45sec difference over a 1,2mile for a great swimmer and gap increase as someone pass more time in the water.
I work with many div1-2 and pro triathlete in my swim group. all purebread swimmers hate the fullsleeve. And as i tell them daily, i dont give a $%it about there ‘feeling’'. the clock speak the true They are significantly faster on the fullsleeve everytime i force them into the experiement. it s not even close.
in most case, pro using sleeveless are already struggling with there swimming and looking for clue. I remember when chris lieto went on that tangente of wearing sleeveless because it felt better. He was also giving us 4-5-6 minutes lead out of the water instead of been right in the second pack in full sleeve. That lasted only a few race before he came back to his sence. I think Jordan also tried that. Sheila taromina also did in the world cup realising she could not outswim the front group while she would get 60sec breakaway with her full sleeve. Data are there.
if overheating is a issue, perhaps but for all other cases, even if it dosnt feel good…the full sleeve willl get you ahead in the game in 99% of the cases.
full sleeve vs sleevelss is about the same debat as mavic open pro vs zipp 404. I could think of perhaps one scenario were the mavic might be better, but for the 99 others…go ZIPP
I’ve done a lot of testing on a lot of wet suits over the years.
Full suits are about :06-:08 per 100yd faster then no wet suit.
By all accounts that I can find, and believe me I did a lot of research and talked with a lot of wet suit manufacturers, distributors, designers the consensus would put a sleeveless about :02-:03 slower per 100yds.
You’re not just giving up sleeves, you’re also giving up some rubber under the arms/along the sides of your body. You may also be giving up more flexible rubber in that area.
Many companies don’t make a sleeveless in their highest line or even their highest 2 lines of suits. Sleeveless suits often get relegated to the lower line suits, with lessor quality of rubber. You also allow more water into a sleeveless suit which doesn’t help it to swim faster. They may also have less design feature for ease of removal around the ankles. Maybe it costs you an extra :05 to get off vs a sleeved suit, maybe it doesn’t.
Things to ponder when making a wet suit decision.
I’d say sleeved wetsuits in the pro ranks make up 96-97% of all wetsuits if you looked at 10-15 races and probably 85-90% of the population in AG races.
Over a full wetsuit of the same brand in a 1.2 swim? All other things being equal of course…both well fitting, etc… 1 minute? If we need a pace, how about a 1:30 pace swimmer?
It could actually be faster. People will reply on here and poo poo them, but there is a reason why many people, and some pros choose to wear sleeveless. It really depends on many things, but if you overheat or sweat too much in a full-sleeve, then they can wreck havoc on your race. They can be faster than a sleeved suit in just the water, and they can be even faster if you factor in how they can play a pivotal role in you race as a whole. I wouldn’t sweat sleeveless over a sleeved suit.
But the counter argument for someone like you is…yes, it could play a pivotal factor in your race. You arent a front pack swimmer and cant afford to make the mistake of wearing a sleeveless when the faster guys are on fullsleeve. Taking heat, and other factor aside, we are talking 45sec difference over a 1,2mile for a great swimmer and gap increase as someone pass more time in the water.
I work with many div1-2 and pro triathlete in my swim group. all purebread swimmers hate the fullsleeve. And as i tell them daily, i dont give a $%it about there ‘feeling’'. the clock speak the true They are significantly faster on the fullsleeve everytime i force them into the experiement. it s not even close.
in most case, pro using sleeveless are already struggling with there swimming and looking for clue. I remember when chris lieto went on that tangente of wearing sleeveless because it felt better. He was also giving us 4-5-6 minutes lead out of the water instead of been right in the second pack in full sleeve. That lasted only a few race before he came back to his sence. I think Jordan also tried that. Sheila taromina also did in the world cup realising she could not outswim the front group while she would get 60sec breakaway with her full sleeve. Data are there.
if overheating is a issue, perhaps but for all other cases, even if it dosnt feel good…the full sleeve willl get you ahead in the game in 99% of the cases.
full sleeve vs sleevelss is about the same debat as mavic open pro vs zipp 404. I could think of perhaps one scenario were the mavic might be better, but for the 99 others…go ZIPP
Yep I am referring to the primary risk of overheating, that is the only real reason to go sleeveless IMO. The problem is you never know if you will overheat until it is too late. I have seen enough people crack under warm water, Ironman Wisconsin was a good example of this last year, Ironman Texas this year, Muncie 70.3 this year, to know that you want to be conservative if you already tend to overheat in first place.
There are some good responses here, with some good feedback.
The results will vary from person to person. How much are the sleeves worth in terms of time? Do you have a benchmark for either? You say that you are a 1:30 swimmer but have you swam longer distances in both?
The reason we push a proper fitting full sleeve suit are the benefits of the coated neoprene.
Is a full sleeve faster every time? On paper, yes. In reality, not necessarily.
A proper fit is a factor that could be debated, and can most definitely effect the benefits of a full sleeve suit. Additionally, putting the suit on correctly is a big factor.
If you overheat, then a sleeveless may be your better option.
What makes you want to go sleeveless over a longer distance?
jake
yup i noted this effect.
In triathlon this weekend,
1st day 500m sprint in sleeveless - 9:30 swim
2nd day 15000m oly in full - 26:30
same course, same conditions
on the forearm surface pull, that is a big deal. I havent seen wetsuits like these in SoCal, but when I was in roth I saw some people using these… personally I think they should be illegal:
http://www.irishtriathlon.com/index.php/2012/08/new-triathlon-wetsuit-rules-in-plain-english/
Maybe your solution is to bring both your sleeveless and your sleeved wetsuit to the race, see what the temp is and se what everyone else is doing.
If everyone goes sleeved and you go sleeveless are enough going to crack from overheating to allow you to get into the money? Lot’s of risk/reward analysis for sure.
Maybe your solution is to bring both your sleeveless and your sleeved wetsuit to the race, see what the temp is and se what everyone else is doing.
If everyone goes sleeved and you go sleeveless are enough going to crack from overheating to allow you to get into the money? Lot’s of risk/reward analysis for sure.
I almost always do. For instance, I swam sleeved at IM Texas in practice swim and thought it was ok, but then thought about one more days radiant energy and thought I don’t know. I ended up bringing a swimskin, sleeveless and sleeved to transition on race morning and went with a sleeveless. It wasn’t until we entered the channel for last 1/3 that I knew for sure I made right choice, but then I blew a tire 2 miles in and it was all for not.
I swam in my De Soto bib and vest (sleeveless) vs sleeved top. I agree that 1-3 sec per hundred is about right. I’d add that I always felt faster in sleeveless but swam slower…
Half IM - I’d go with 20-60 seconds. Not enough to stress about. I’d always wear a full suit if allowed. I did Boulder which had water temps just under legal. I took it easy and didn’t get even remotely warm.
If you do get warm, just scoop some water in through the neck line and it’ll cool you off.
Dave
I was at IM Bldr and was very glad I raced with a sleeveless. N=1, off identical swim prep for IM CdA and IM Bldr I was ~2.5min slower in a sleeveless. If a wetsuit gives you ~5sec/100yrds over non-wetsuit in controlled conditions like a pool, I’d expect the sleeve+torso coverage of a sleeved wetsuit to allow as much as 2-3sec/100yrds in time reduction over a sleeveless.