Is your Garmin set up for meters or yards??? Usually I see guys talking about their OW pace in terms of per 100m. Not trying to be a smart ass but you might want to double-check your settings.
If there is a pack around you, you can’t do anything about it. You just make a decision if it’s a good pack for you to be in or not. To be honest, sighting is like riding a bike… once learned… It’s not like it’s something you have to think about in order to do it properly.
On the topic though - there are different ways you can do it. Say you breath right side, breather you can breathe when your right arm is out front., before it starts to catch. That is very good in calm water and up to medium disturbance. Or you can do the opposite when the left arm is out in front before catch. Or you can do it when they left. Arm is coming over and you started your pull
To be honest, it should be easier to site in salt water because of the extra bounce. But if you practice method one in the pool and figure out if that is a good method to avoid your hips going down, then a person should stick with that. That is what the Rio 10 km men gold medallist did
What one do you do
Mate, if I am on good money feet I’m looking through the top of my goggles for the bubbles and hanging on for dear life. That is when you know you’ve got the right feet. Helps if you have good forward vision goggles. I would sight to see when the end line is to know how much longer I have to wait to stop swimming
Even just doing a few strokes with eyes closed gives you a bit of a different sensation and clue as to whether you swim straight. But don’t do it when there’s other people coming down the other side.!!!
There are some other factors here. Number one. Swimming in yards. Where I live. We just have 50 meter pools and I can tell you your arms get way more tired and it’s hard the hold pace in the long pool. So you’ll drop off may just be a reflection of a lack of muscular endurance. Number two. Do you really know how to swim hard in open water? Have you got that same burning feeling in your gut that you do when you really push to the top in the pool? Could be 2-3 seconds on each of these factors.
I’ll def disagree with this. Even though pool swim coaches choose to neglect this because pool swimmers don’t need to sight, it’s at the minimal at least as important as having good/optizimed breath form, and likely a lot more important than that, as arguably, it’s the one moment where you’re least efficient in the water, with your eyes poking out - and if there’s chop, a good part of your head will have to come out to see anything. Doesn’t mean you are spending hours on it alone, but for sure, this is likely what you’re going to practice OWS for - the sighting, nav, and neck strength training for it. All the other stuff is arguably done better in the pool (speed, endurance, technique).
But the reality is with as many swim cancelllations as our sport continues to get with any “rough” water, crocodile sighting (eyes only out of water) is sufficient enough. And in that practice, the better form your swimming the easier/less “strain” your putting on your neck. So in that aspect it’s far better for ows triathletes to continue to work on their body position then some weekly do 1k of water polo sighting 3 times per 25 “practice”.
Despite their swim cancellations, I’ve had two pretty decently choppy OWS conditions in the past 2 years that I was really glad I practiced sighting in chop (there’s a body of water with afternoon wind near me) in. Pool practice is ok, but nothing like practicing rolling and breathing with the chop more efficiently. Placed higher than I typically did in those swims for sure. Even breathing was pretty challenging in that chop, def couldn’t do crocodile eyes at all - and it was really helpful to know to sight on the swells, not the troughs as well. You can’t go wrong with practicing OWS sighting, but you can def go wrong by not practicing it at least a little. (Doesn’t take a crazy amount, as you noted - weekly 1k of 3x/25 is a good amount!)
You missed what I’m saying. For most AG triathletes who already don’t swim all that much, working on their body position with pool swimming will have way more benefit then adding weekly 1k yards of “water polo” swimming every 3rd stroke to prepare for OWS. The better positioned you are in the water, the easier sighting actually is and here’s the most important part- the less impactful it is on your position in the water. Again the chances of most people actually racing races where actual chop is so much that they are only doing water polo vs slight head up approach is becoming rarer and rarer these days. I’d wager 2/3rd of the races today are flat/calm waters.
You don’t have to exclusively do one or the other.
You ALWAYS work on body position. With every second in the water. I don’t know why you even need to bring it up - that is what every swimmer needs to be doing every second they are in the pool.
Sighting, on the other hand, needs to be consciously added and practiced in the pool if you aren’t doing OWS practice. And even that requires minimal extra input - adding sighting a few times per 25 in a part of your workout is not a big ask, and shouldn’t disrupt any part of your workout whatsoever. You don’t even need to change your workout - you just have to be motivated enough to commit to doing it (which is surprisingly hard for a lot of folks in the pull despite the minimal added effort.)
That’s the point. When you add in water polo sighting, your disrupting your stroke and position completely. That’s the whole point of what water polo sighting is. So for most AG triathletes, they would be much better simply working on the actual freestyle swim stroke than adding weekly “water polo” sighting practice. AND add in that fact that for the most part, many races with “chop” get more and more cancelled. So if you want to work on crocodile sighting, that has very little disruption into your swim stroke. Actual water polo sighting takes about 3 strokes with your head completely out of the water to truly use it to “sight”. For most AG triathletes, that’s going to be super inefficient. So in a cost/benefit analysis, 1k weekly yards of “water polo” is terribly inefficient way of swim training for the average AG swimmer who likely doesn’t even swim 10k a week.
Once you have an understanding of it, cool want to do it for 200, go for it. But to spend that much time in the pool, that’s a complete waste of time. Your neck isn’t going to be that sore from lack of practicing it.
Who said anything about water polo sighting?
It’s exactly what I said - just add in a few sights every length in some part of your workout. It doesn’t change anything. Not sure why you’re going out of your way to make sighting practice seem like something so time intensive and exhausting.
Even that little bit of sighting practice will takes its toll the first few times - that’s the point. My neck gets a little sore and by race day I’m glad I’ve done it as that’s all worked out. But it’s not some crazy drill like water-polo Tarzan swimming for a lot of lengths.
You literally argued you were glad you did more than crocodile swimming cus you’ve had 2 “choppy” swims in the past 2 years. Which is exactly my point, you probaly race a bunch more than that. So the sighting skill of crocodile eyes will generally be the best bang for *most AG triathletes. Anything more than that like 1k of water polo sighting is a complete waste of time and valuable training time. Know how to do the skill, do it for a 100-200 and then you’ll be “good”. Anything more is a lose of valuable actual proper swim training. Again most swims you can use crocodile eyes, or at min slight lift of the head, actual real chop of using actual water polo to “see over the chop” is being rarer and rarer. And again with most AG triathletes, swimming is the least practiced and so working on the swim stroke should always take priority over “sighting” practice.
This is a pointless debate. You keep putting things into my statements that I didn’t make.
Did I ever mention that I do 1k or even close to that of water polo sighting? All I’ve recommended in this thread for OP, is to put SOME sighting practice, meaning efficient (crocodile-style) sighting into their regimen before race day.
It’s def not a waste of time, and will not affect your workout one bit. If you know you have a race with potential real chop (like Alcatraz can be), lift your head higher at times on the sighting to further strengthen your neck, and you’re done.
There is no circumstance I’ve mentioned where sighting practice ‘supersedes’ swim practice so once again you’re making up stuff again.
I’m just confirming that for the most part in our sport today, crocodile swimming is good enough sighting. And if done properly, your not going to have “neck pain” from lack of adding it into your training. Only if your truly in choppy water, when your lifting your head will you then run into neck pain. But again for the majority of athletes, you shouldn’t ever have to lift your head completely out of the water. The 1 race a year you do, and you know it’s going to be windy, add “water polo” into a few 100’s that race week and your good to go.
That’s my point too - but I’m saying you should def still practice it before race day. Sure, if you’re a really experienced racer/OWS person, it doesn’t take much. But if you haven’t done as much, or you haven’t done any sighting because it’s your first race of the year, practice helps for sure - even that little motion for 1500, let alone the 2.4 mile IM swim, will take its toll on the unprepared.
I also wouldn’t say almost no races have chop. If you’re swimming anywhere in the vicinity of other people, like close enough to potentially touch them if you move just a bit over, there’s gonna be some chop that’ll mess with your otherwise super efficient crocodile eyes. In the pool or still solo OWS I can peek my eyes so little my head doesn’t even come up almost at all, but that’s def not happening as a MOP swimmer in the scrums I’m in.
It’s still amazing to me that swim coaches will obsess over head position in a normal pool stroke, but then totally ignore someone’s sighting technique, particularly in beginner or slower swimmers - when it’s a movement they’re going to do hundreds or more times during a OWS they are training specifically for. Not saying it’s some crazy hard technique thing, but it’s disproportionate how little attention it gets. And the more the chop, the more important your ability to do this well. (The year I did Alcatraz, tons of people had to get jetskiied off the swim course due to the chop and current.)