How much is too much to invest into a bike?

Triathlon Forum
1

I traded a $2k gaming computer last year for a 2014 P2 completely stock. Since then, I’ve upgraded to used dura ace di2 and used carbon bars, being the only things that are not easily swappable between bikes (carbon wheels, power meter pedals, water bottles cages, etc I could move to a new bike).

At this point, the only upgrades I can do are things that will be pinching hairs such as anything from ceramic speed, different sets of race wheels, custom vinyl wraps, etc. I love this bike, because everything I’ve done to it has made it my bike with no P2 exactly like mine. But I wonder if it’s worth it to keep sinking money into it, or if I should save it to eventually get a new bike, even though I don’t really want a new tri bike unless disc brakes become mandatory or something.

How much have you put into your bike if anything at all with upgrades? Do you think it’s worth it to upgrade, or just save for a new one/buy one that already has everything you want?

2

Personally, I try to spend as little as possible on my bike without giving up easy free speed. Once you have taken care of position, helmet, wheels and tires, and clean up your cables a bit, your P2 should be totally be competitive.

You could spend a lot more, or spend a lot of time chasing small watt gains, but for me, it isn’t worth it (either financially or from a time point of view).

While I agree that optimizing one’s gear and optimizing one’s training are not mutually exclusive, I only have so much time to spend on triathlon. When I spend too much time obsessing about my bike, I find I spend less time obsessing about my training - so for me, I get my bike set up well and then forget about it for the season while I am focussed on training and racing.

3

A bike to me is a tool to do something with… as long as it remains a good tool with no serious flaws or MUCH better options… I’ll keep using it. Two things you didn’t mention are fit and a decent aero helmet. I’m also not sure if you have “race” wheels or not from your description. I’d go that route vs. buying a new bike if I had a P2.

In terms of $$$, that’s a relative thing to each of us. If you have a large disposable income and can drop 5-10K a year on a new bike with ease, then have at it… if not keep rocking the P2, IMO.

4

Honestly depends on how much disposable you have and your race goals. Personally I bought a used tri bike for $1k and haven’t upgraded anything and probably wont due to limited income as a grad student. My triathlon spending money is going to be going towards races/bike fit/TrainerRoad/Power meter before any component upgrades. But thats just where I am at financially and my needs. If I had all those things then I probably wouldn’t be spending money on bike upgrades still and would either save up for a new bike or be putting that money towards races I normally wouldnt go to due to travel costs (like doing a Europe race or two)

5

The 2014 P2 is the same as the current P2. And, it is a solid foundation. You would not gain a great deal of speed if you swapped to a faster frame. The P2 cockpit is its biggest shortcoming, and you solved that. No reason to upgrade the frame unless you really fall in love with the look of a bike.

I started with a stock IA16. Then I upgraded the brakes to Tririg Omega X. Then I upgraded to carbon wheels. Then I upgraded the cockpit. Then I upgraded to mechanical Ultegra. Then I upgraded to Di2. Then I upgraded the wheels again. Along the way, I upgraded to a faster chain and oversized pulley (Premier Bike). I love my bike, and I will probably not upgrade the frame unless I break my current frame or make the move to disc brakes.

6

I bought a 2014 P2 in 2015.

I changed when I bought it:
Crank
Bottom Bracket
Base Bar
Aero Bars
Brake Levers
Brake Calipers
Saddle

Last winter I changed to 11 speed
Shifters
Derailleurs
Cassette
Chain

So the only stock items on the bike are the frame, fork and training wheels but I did rebuild the rear wheel with a R7000 Hub. That hub was nearly the same dimensions as stock Vision hub, I had to slot the spoke holes to accept the bladed spokes.

I won’t even consider Ceramic anything. I’m not quite ready for electric shifting yet.

7

Two things you didn’t mention are fit and a decent aero helmet. I’m also not sure if you have “race” wheels or not from your description. I’d go that route vs. buying a new bike if I had a P2.

In terms of $$$, that’s a relative thing to each of us. If you have a large disposable income and can drop 5-10K a year on a new bike with ease, then have at it… if not keep rocking the P2, IMO.

I have had a professional bike fit done, a rudy wing57 (vinyl wrapped with custom stuffs), and I have giant SLR 0 65mm carbon wheels that I use for races currently. I just bought a Zipp Super 9 that I’m looking to find a good front wheel to go with like a 454 or 858 if I can find a good deal on one.

The 2014 P2 is the same as the current P2. And, it is a solid foundation. You would not gain a great deal of speed if you swapped to a faster frame. The P2 cockpit is its biggest shortcoming, and you solved that. No reason to upgrade the frame unless you really fall in love with the look of a bike.

I started with a stock IA16. Then I upgraded the brakes to Tririg Omega X. Then I upgraded to carbon wheels. Then I upgraded the cockpit. Then I upgraded to mechanical Ultegra. Then I upgraded to Di2. Then I upgraded the wheels again. Along the way, I upgraded to a faster chain and oversized pulley (Premier Bike). I love my bike, and I will probably not upgrade the frame unless I break my current frame or make the move to disc brakes.

I completely forgot about upgrading the brakes too. Eventually if I were to keep going, nothing besides the frame on my bike would be stock anymore.

8

It sounds like you see 2 options where there are in fact 3. Or maybe I misread it?
It sounds like you’re saying you’ve already got a good fast bike with no obvious flaws.
So, your options are:
Continue upgrading despite the fact there are no remaining upgrades that provide significant gainsSave the money that could be spent on insignificant upgrades towards a frame upgrade which provides no significant gainsStop spending money since it’s not going to gain you anything worthwhile
Plenty people on ST seem determined to keep changing things even if there’s no promise of significantly perceptible benefit. The only reason for anyone to pursue this course of action is that they are unfortunate enough to suffer from CUS (Compulsive “Upgrade” Syndrome). Option 1 and 2 are generally symptoms of this disorder. Of course there are some tried and tested excuses/reasons but I’m not telling you what they are. I don’t want to enable you.

9

If I was in your position and wondering what to invest in next, it would be a trip to see Jim Manton for some alphamantis or Brian Stover at A2.

10

At this point, the only upgrades I can do are things that will be pinching hairs such as anything from ceramic speed,

Couple of things

  1. read this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8RrY_TRtezdc2pYSHJ1cVllUjQ/view it’ll provide a ton of info on where we are with bikes. Some caveats are that I’ve talked with some people who have designed fast disc brake TT bikes who said without discs they could be ~ 5w faster. food for thought anyway.

  2. The ceramic Oversized pulley thing, not worth it. the benefits come from the oversized pulley and that’s maybe 1.5w, maybe. If you’re hell bent on upgrading pulleys look at Hawk racing. Same for BB fwiw. there is plenty of data to support if you search

  3. research aero helmets. You don’t say you have one, I suspect you do. There is a bottom teir of helmets you should ride if you’re in the M45-49Ag. Otherwise stay away from them and look at the helmets that typically do very well across a spectrum of people.

  4. race kit - sleeves are faster for 99/100 people. Fit of the sleeved suit is very important. For instance there are 3 suits I can wear that are 1-2w faster at 0 than the Kiwami Spider 2. I still ride the Spider 2 bc at yaw they are all the same and the Spider 2 is a handful of watts faster than the spider 1 on me. ymmv

  5. you mentioned bars. there can be a significant difference between these. some are really fast and some are fast and some are ok.

You’ve done a lot. fwiw I ride a Scott plasma 3 that’s at least 8yr old. I’ve modified it with internal wiring and put some fast aerobars on it. There are <6 stock bikes out there that are on the market that are faster than it (ask me how I know!). Why would I upgrade to something slower just bc it’s shiny & new? yet I see people get rid of something fast for something slower & new all the time. Sucks to be them.

There are a shit ton of bikes on the market that suck ass aerodynamically. For the life of me I can’t understand why someone would pay = >$8k for a brick that’s going to require 5-15+ more watts to go the same speed.

Recently I’ve seen some outrageous claims by a few bike companies on how fast their bikes are. Some of these claims would equate to 30-40w drag savings off the bike alone. Please mother f*ckers, these companies need to put down the hard drugs and come back to reality. My road bike to TT bike delta is 35-40w. No recent TT bike to current TT bike is that much.

For example I just did a consult with a coach who has a pro athlete that is riding 8-10w more on the same courses and going 4-8 min slower then last year after switching bikes, same power meter. And this (redacted) isn’t going to beat your P2. You could spend up to $14k for one though.

anyway off my soapbox. You’re doing the right thing. Now it’s helmets, textiles, tubes, tires, where you store stuff on your bike when racing for you to further reduce your bike split via equipment.

11

There are two hobbies in play here. One hobby is triathlon. Nothing you do, at this point, is going to contribute much (if anything) to the triathlon hobby.

The second hobby is collecting bike equipment. Going to Dura Ace Di2 rather than Ultegra Di2 feeds this hobby. Custom wraps do the same. It’s a source of pleasure separate and distinct from whatever happens out on the course. For this hobby, the sky (and budget) is the limit. It’s like a custom car. Do whatever makes you happy!

12

Couple of things

  1. read this: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8RrY_TRtezdc2pYSHJ1cVllUjQ/view it’ll provide a ton of info on where we are with bikes. Some caveats are that I’ve talked with some people who have designed fast disc brake TT bikes who said without discs they could be ~ 5w faster. food for thought anyway.

Skimming over this briefly is a good read. I’m going to dive deep into it this weekend after my long training ride. It seems like basically there won’t be a reason for me to upgrade ever unless I absolutely HAVE to, which makes me happy to know.

  1. The ceramic Oversized pulley thing, not worth it. the benefits come from the oversized pulley and that’s maybe 1.5w, maybe. If you’re hell bent on upgrading pulleys look at Hawk racing. Same for BB fwiw. there is plenty of data to support if you search

I’m not hell bent on this upgrade. I’ve just been staring at my bike looking at what else could be done to it, I just thought the system looked cool. But, not $500 cool for me anyways.

  1. research aero helmets. You don’t say you have one, I suspect you do. There is a bottom teir of helmets you should ride if you’re in the M45-49Ag. Otherwise stay away from them and look at the helmets that typically do very well across a spectrum of people.

I have a rudy wing 57 right now because I got a good deal on it. I’m 21 right now, and my aspiration today is to KQ someday and be overall competitive (I won my first Olympic overall a couple weeks ago which was cool). I didn’t know there was more to helmets besides which one you fancied more, I was looking to get a Kask Mistral cause I thought it looked cool, but will research deeper to make a better decision.

  1. race kit - sleeves are faster for 99/100 people. Fit of the sleeved suit is very important. For instance there are 3 suits I can wear that are 1-2w faster at 0 than the Kiwami Spider 2. I still ride the Spider 2 bc at yaw they are all the same and the Spider 2 is a handful of watts faster than the spider 1 on me. ymmv

Do you use custom sleeved suits, or existing models? My body composition is weird. Right now, I west a sleeveless (oops) 2 piece, size small bottoms and size medium tops from Zoot.

  1. you mentioned bars. there can be a significant difference between these. some are really fast and some are fast and some are ok.

I upgraded to 3T Aduro base bar with PD 4525 carbon extensions. Everyone at my club has the P5 that these came stock on, and thought that they were better than me with my P2 so I had a weird thing about making my P2 into a P5 which I’ve effectively done at this point minus disc brakes (which I can’t do). Odd competitive nature exhibited here.

You’ve done a lot. fwiw I ride a Scott plasma 3 that’s at least 8yr old. I’ve modified it with internal wiring and put some fast aerobars on it. There are <6 stock bikes out there that are on the market that are faster than it (ask me how I know!). Why would I upgrade to something slower just bc it’s shiny & new? yet I see people get rid of something fast for something slower & new all the time. Sucks to be them.

There are a shit ton of bikes on the market suck ass aerodynamically. For the life of me I can’t understand why someone would pay = >$8k for a brick that’s going to require 5-15+ more watts to go the same speed.

Recently I’ve seen some outrageous claims by a few bike companies on how fast their bikes are. Some of these claims would equate to 30-40w drag savings off the bike alone. Please mother f*ckers, those companies need to put down the hard drugs and come back to reality. My road bike to TT bike delta is 35-40w. No recent TT bike to current TT bike is that much.

For example I just did a consult with a coach who has a pro athlete that is riding 8-10w more on the same courses and going 4-8 min slower then last year after switching bikes, same power meter. And this (redacted) isn’t going to beat your P2. You could spend up to $14k for one though.

anyway off my soapbox. You’re doing the right thing. Now it’s helmets, textiles, tubes, tires

Lots of good stuff here. Thanks for the reply! A lot of knowledge here for me to take in and make appropriate corrections that will make a bigger difference in the end.

13

I bought a 2014 P2 in 2015.

I changed when I bought it:
Crank
Bottom Bracket
Base Bar
Aero Bars
Brake Levers
Brake Calipers
Saddle

Last winter I changed to 11 speed
Shifters
Derailleurs
Cassette
Chain

So the only stock items on the bike are the frame, fork and training wheels but I did rebuild the rear wheel with a R7000 Hub. That hub was nearly the same dimensions as stock Vision hub, I had to slot the spoke holes to accept the bladed spokes.

I won’t even consider Ceramic anything. I’m not quite ready for electric shifting yet.

I bought 2015 P2 in 2017.

I changed when I bought it:
Base Bar (Svet R)
Aero Bars (Devox F-Bend)
Brake Levers (TRP carbon)
Tririg Omega X brakes front and rear
Zipp DIsc(tubular)
Zipp 808(tubular)

Now I’m shopping for arm rest.

14

Everything is relative. My suggestion is lose 2lbs first…

15

How much have you put into your bike if anything at all with upgrades? Do you think it’s worth it to upgrade, or just save for a new one/buy one that already has everything you want?

The trouble is the cost of parts to you is way higher than what the bike companies pay for. There becomes a point where its not worth adding in upgrades and it makes more sense to buy a whole new (or used) bike.

On the other hand it’s much easier to tell the spouse (and yourself) that you only spent $150 bucks on something because a part broke/wore out rather than asking for approval to buy something for $3,000 when your current bike works fine.

I’m at this struggle now, I want to upgrade my Avid BB5 brakes, they work fine, just need to readjust them every 100 miles or so. I could upgrade for $120-$150 bucks and not have that problem, but the argument is: do I really want to put in another $150 into a $800 bike (already invested $250 or so) or sell the 3 year old aluminum entry level bike and upgrade a mid level carbon bike.

16

+1

Not every bike upgrade has to be justified by an increase in speed

If you derive pleasure from customizing your bike and have the money, just do it

Getting in better shape and optimizing /adding equipment to the nth degree are not mutually exclusive

There are two hobbies in play here. One hobby is triathlon. Nothing you do, at this point, is going to contribute much (if anything) to the triathlon hobby.

The second hobby is collecting bike equipment. Going to Dura Ace Di2 rather than Ultegra Di2 feeds this hobby. Custom wraps do the same. It’s a source of pleasure separate and distinct from whatever happens out on the course. For this hobby, the sky (and budget) is the limit. It’s like a custom car. Do whatever makes you happy!

17

There are two hobbies in play here. One hobby is triathlon. Nothing you do, at this point, is going to contribute much (if anything) to the triathlon hobby.

The second hobby is collecting bike equipment. Going to Dura Ace Di2 rather than Ultegra Di2 feeds this hobby. Custom wraps do the same. It’s a source of pleasure separate and distinct from whatever happens out on the course. For this hobby, the sky (and budget) is the limit. It’s like a custom car. Do whatever makes you happy!
Accurate and a good way of putting it!

18

Everything is relative. My suggestion is lose 2lbs first…
Why should he lose it first since minor athlete weight changes and bike upgrades are completely unrelated? Why 2lbs and not 1lb or 5lbs? How much is enough?

This sort of comment serves no purpose.

19

Everything is relative. My suggestion is lose 2lbs first…
Why should he lose it first since minor athlete weight changes and bike upgrades are completely unrelated? Why 2lbs and not 1lb or 5lbs? How much is enough?

This sort of comment serves no purpose.

I hear this one a lot. I way over obsess about my weight, I was on skeleton level at the beginning of this season and started getting sick because of it. Right now, I’m 155lbs at 5’6" and can complete all my workouts (and hopefully my IM too), so I’m going to stick at this weight

20

I am 5’6" too and currently weigh 142 pounds.

When I was running a lot, I was around 126 pounds.

I was in my best Ironman shape at around 135 pounds.