Let’s assume the same rubber and everything else. 180K ! 5:30 bike split with the Zipp combo…how much does Flo gain me? By the way, I am talking about 7 year old Zipp dimpled stuff, not Firecrest. I am assuming the weight penalty of Flo’s won’t factor in unless I am on a course like IM France or Embrunman.
a bees willie, i wouldnt bother, the zipps are fine
Do put a wheelcover on the back though and you should save several ‘bees willies’ over an ironman
.
Hey Dev, I am seriously considering selling my Zipp 404 FCs and purchasing a set of FLOs. I am really happy with the Zipps, however, I would prefer an aluminum brake surface. The Zipps are a lot lighter but as others will state, this is not really much of a benefit unless you are doing a race with a LOT of climbing.
Zipps have better hubs, just stick with them.
Are you talking zipp tubulars? Zero difference at the end of the day.
If you like the alloy brake surface, go for that. Or if you can sell the zipps for the a good price. You can get brand new Flo set for the same price.
This is for Dev, I don’t feel like typing it over;
As posted above, the Zipps are just worth more money. I just sold my 12 year old 404 clinchers for more than I paid for them. I’d stick with the Zipps. If you have clinchers with alu braking surface, they are probably about a pound lighter than the Flo’s. If they are all carbon, it’s probably close to 2 lbs. Now if you lived and raced in Florida or some other flat area the Flo’s better aerodynamics might be the faster choice but I know that you don’t live there. On a course like Lake Placid the Flo’s will probably give you an advantage on the Kean hill, but maybe not if you are already going as fast as you are comfortable with. Then you’ve got to carry those big meats back up from Jay to LP, twice! Then the crap hit’s the fan when you put on your running shoes. The ST mantra of ‘‘aero always trumps weight’’ applies when comparing to a 32 spoke box rim but I don’t think it plays out when the aerodynamics are close.
When are you coming to race American Zofingen?
tubular zipp or clincher?
the flo’s might be faster than the tubular zipps, but not much.
If you have clincher zipps I would expect it to be worth the upgrade, probably more than a minute saved on a flat course…assuming you use 23mm tires.
Let’s assume the same rubber and everything else. 180K ! 5:30 bike split with the Zipp combo…how much does Flo gain me? By the way, I am talking about 7 year old Zipp dimpled stuff, not Firecrest. I am assuming the weight penalty of Flo’s won’t factor in unless I am on a course like IM France or Embrunman.
As posted above, the Zipps are just worth more money. I just sold my 12 year old 404 clinchers for more than I paid for them.
Surprised you managed that. I guess the older model alloy clinchers maybe hold their value better. I’ve notice that old Zipps are going for next to nothing now, especially tubular models.
Once the new wider rims and carbon clinchers came out, the old tech was considered horrible by many people.
I did get a great buy on the back then. A Euro pro was selling them new on rec.sport.triathlon. The prices are so inflated now that I really expected to do better.
I wanted the comparison to be apples to apples from a pure speed perspective so old clincher Zipps to new clincher Flos. But the reality is that I am on old tubulars and I’m not even on 404 front (I just said 404 to make the discussion easier…my front is a HED Stinger 60 which is pretty well the same as an old Zipp 404).
Sooooooo, it’s more like “is an old Stinger 60 tubular front and Zipp Dimpled 808 tubular rear, almost as fast as the Flo 60/90 Combo on clinchers”.
Then we’d have to assume equivalent rubber on each which means I actually have to use semi fast tubulars…so as you can see the real comparison is a bit more difficult. I wanted to just frame the problem to be more simple so that the discussion did not get too far out of hand.
I do mentally have a road block on buying bike gear because I can do so much more with my money than spending on bike gear that will only gain me seconds here or there (the final entry beside my name on sportstats is a bit secondary to my life experiences at this point, however, if it is cheap upgrade, I’m still interested). It’s the same reason I drive a Jetta vs an Audi A6. I get pretty well everything I need out of the Jetta. The A6 is a lot more money for not that much legal functionality (any additional functionality I’ll get traffic tickets for). The difference between an A6 and a Jetta I seem to give to WTC every month anyway in the form of race fees rather than car payments.
For me, the decision would be the switch to clincher, not speed. The time savings would be so minor that I can’t imagine being worth it.
From the prices I’ve seen, I would guess you might get $800 for your current wheels. So you are out a few hundred to get the Flo’s (unless you get them in the US and save the GST). Might save that by getting much cheaper tires, $40 for the clinchers vs $80+ for tubulars (gp4000).
Hey Dev, I am seriously considering selling my Zipp 404 FCs and purchasing a set of FLOs. I am really happy with the Zipps, however, I would prefer an aluminum brake surface. The Zipps are a lot lighter but as others will state, this is not really much of a benefit unless you are doing a race with a LOT of climbing.
How cheap will you sell that front 404? I have a rear 808FC that’s lonely without a matching front FC. The existing non fc 404 is just such a fasion faux pas in front.
I actually tossed around the idea of getting a flo 60 for the front. But we’re probably talking at best 1 minute in a 70.3 at most and 2 minutes in a IM. That might be a stretch. Not really worth it in my mind.
Not sure if I would be willing to sell just the front. I figure it always more difficult to sell individual wheels than wheelsets. Also, just to be clear since you are talking about asethetics, my 404FCs have the “CC” label on them rather than the red firecest emblem. It is quite possible that the stickers between your 800FC and my 404FC do not match. This is what I have.
Not sure if I would be willing to sell just the front. I figure it always more difficult to sell individual wheels than wheelsets. Also, just to be clear since you are talking about asethetics, my 404FCs have the “CC” label on them rather than the red firecest emblem. It is quite possible that the stickers between your 800FC and my 404FC do not match. This is what I have.
No, I have the narrow aluminum rim, torrodial shape wheelset. I bought it in 2011. It’s now the Zipp 60. It’s not the FC shape or all carbon like my 808FC I bought in June.
But hat was a good point.
I think Zipp decided that a red eagle/phoenix, whatever it is looks nice that a simple CC emblem and so made the change. My understanding is that the firecrest rims have not changed, however, the hubs were revised in 2012 (my Firecrests are 2011s although they were first put on the road spring 2012. Anyways, I agree it is critical that the appearance of the front and rear wheels match.
Dev, you should be banished from Slowtwitch for combining Hed and Zipp wheels. I did not even know that that was possible - I mean wouldn’t a rift be torn in the universe or something?
Dev gains may not be enough but as well as aero gains stiffness of wheels should be considered for non flat courses. Yes you may carry some extra weight 300-500 grams but if Flo’s are stiffer that may negate the lighter weight of the Zipp HED combo.
The other factor is you may be more likely to ride the Flo’s as everyday wheels.
I think you need someone nearby to switch wheels for a week so you can judge for yourself.
Dev,
Are you thinking Flo only b/c of $? Just curious why not HED Jet?
Jamie
Thanks, good plan…I’ll ask Bmas if I can borrow his for a couple of rides to make the decision!
Dev gains may not be enough but as well as aero gains stiffness of wheels should be considered for non flat courses. Yes you may carry some extra weight 300-500 grams but if Flo’s are stiffer that may negate the lighter weight of the Zipp HED combo.
The other factor is you may be more likely to ride the Flo’s as everyday wheels.
I think you need someone nearby to switch wheels for a week so you can judge for yourself.
Wheel stiffness is a nonfactor in tri performance unless you’re big and strong enough to deflect the wheel enough to contact the brake pads. IIRC Dev is a smaller guy, not an issue for him.
I wouldn’t personally bother making the switch unless you’d rather ride clinchers than tubies. The main pluses of the Flos are the price and the aluminum braking surface, not a big deal for regular riding but in the rain carbon braking sucks. Plus if your training wheels have aluminum rims you don’t have to switch brake pads, which is a PITA. The main pluses of the Zipp FC over the Flo are better handling in crosswinds, much easier to change flats, and a more lively feel due to the lighter weight. I’ve had both, so speak from experience.