How much faster are you in a wetsuit?

Triathlon Forum
1

Not a great swimmer, never had coaching, and my continuous training swims are always 1:55-2:10 minutes/100m (50m pool)

I was expecting to scrape in under 40 mins for a recent 70.3, but had a 30:30 split. Immediately tried to figure out how I’d cut the course, but watch and official time/distance match. Rectangular sorta course, and pace was fairly even, so couldn’t have been currents/outgoing tide.

Last tri I’d done before this was an IM in 2013, and same thing, expecting a 1:20ish, got 1:01.

My legs drop when i swim, even in buoyancy shorts, and all I can think is the buoyancy of a wetsuit puts me in a decent position, and the rest of my stroke might be OKish.

Does this add up at all?

2

Not unusual. My solo pool CSS is 2:00. And did a 30:40 for 2km in half last saturday. However, my ‘training’ OW is same speed as the pool. I’ve got squad mate that basically jumps from being the back of my ‘middle’ lane to swim with fast lane swimmers as soon as he goes OW. That has been a total mystery to teh coach that’s spent 2 years trying to work it out.

In my case, several factors to the ‘speed’.

  1. Course was actually short - fairly typical. Actual garmin pace was still 1:32/100.
  2. You’ve got people to draft off, so like cycling that has a significant impact on speed/time
  3. I really struggle with focus when on my own. I can’t see to force myself to put the same effort in. Hence being quicker in squad (1:39s for hard 100m) compared to 1:50-1:55 for solo OW.
  4. Currents. Race at weekend was a big loop in ocean, but the way the tide was working meant a really fast assist tide in the deep then when going back the other way we were close to shore so some friction that slows current and more there’s an eddy current.
  5. Ocean is also saltwater so more bouyancy.
  6. It’s a race. Adreneline and taper.
3

Well I would love to be even close to a 2:00/100m time. Depending on the distance, I pace myself to be around 2:20-2:30, so I’m probably not much help.

Me personally, I don’t bother kicking in my swim. My kick is utterly useless. I’ve actually done drills with a paddle board just to work on my kick and literally didn’t move in the water after kicking for over a minute. I mean I literally did not move. At all.

So I just said “eff it”. I’ll save my legs for the ride and run. But I did learn about keeping the legs up in the swim. I actually learned quite a bit just from watching Youtube videos, particularly the part about breathing just over the shoulder. Even though I mostly wear a shorty wet suit, I’m able to keep my legs up just by breathing over my shoulder and keeping my pace up. The only time I really have problems with my legs sinking is when I am trying to sight buoys in the distance.

I would love to be faster in the water, but I feel I’m still a pretty solid swimmer. Maybe not that fast, but I’m comfortable in crowds and choppy conditions. I also don’t really have anything close to a “swimmer’s build”. Kind of the opposite really.

4

Odds are the course was short. I’d check with others to see if their splits were also faster than expected.

As for the wetsuit, 6-10sec per 100m is not atypical for improvement vs a speedo (in the same environment). When comparing open water to a pool, the pool will be faster due to the wall push offs and lack of sighting. I find I’m just a few seconds/100 faster doing a wetsuit swim in open water vs a speedo in a 25y pool.

5

Tauranga?

6

I think it was 150m short. But pace on garmin still circa 30s/100m faster than pool.pace.

7

Sea swim as you said outgoing tides? So the salt water and wetsuit will improve buoyancy to be better streamline and ultimately speed.

8

Yep. The tide was main factor. I’m local and so that’s common. Equally was only 1850, possibly less depending on how you did sighting the bit from your 2 to turn 3, heading towards the beach after the long leg in the jetstream of outgoing ride.

Sorry if bubble bursting, but everyone had a fast swim.

9

This is all good, appreciate your local knowledge, just trying to work it out, because I’m a bit baffled. Time was still reasonably competitive v the other top ten in AG, so no bubble burst.

10

What is the order of your workouts in a classic week? I mean, if you go swimming when you are tired after 5h ride you can expect a 10s/100 in the pool.
This plus current + draft +adrenaline + wet suit +taper could explain your good performance.

But you’re right it’s very surprising, the gap is very high.

By the way do you swim with high arm frequency or do you glide?
Swim suit tend to be more effective with high arm frequency.

11

25-27 per minute in the pool, 30 in the race. Generally swim fresh, not after anything other than a work day.

12

OK, generally speaking wetsuit is 5 to10s/100 faster, but your times are just out of this world, such a big gap.
In the pool your like a beginner swimmer and a fop in OW, maybe you’ve just found the perfect and magical wetsuit for you. Don’t change it and pick up some spare quickly just in case they stop the production!
Curious to know what model you’re using

13

🤣

Blue70 Fusion. Was the 2nd time I’ve used it, so n=2 experience 🙃

14

Doesn’t look like it completely adds up to me. Are there pro times you can look at to see if they were swimming faster than usual? Would guess that you’d swim more like 35-mid on an accurately measured course. Continuous can mean a lot of things. You’re swimming 1:40s/100y in a 50m pool. Were you doing pace work faster than that?

I was hurt last year but swam 30:30 (1:26.6/100y) in 2022. I was averaging around 1:30/100y for workouts with 2000-3000 worth of volume. Mid to high 1:20s for shorter reps (100s) and low-1:30s for longer reps up to 800. I’m a bad pool swimmer (I think) – still hand turning. Pool I was swimming in was also super hot. They say 3-7s/100 & it’s probably middle to upper end for newer swimmers who can benefit being in a better position. 1:26/100 seems ~right for me if I was locked into the effort I was doing my longer reps at. My course could’ve been a little off too. It’s always hard to know, even with the GPS.

15

Something is definitely off. I’m an FOP swimmer and I’m 3-5 seconds per 100 yds faster in a wetsuit. A slower swimmer will get a much bigger benefit but it is hard to imagine the kind of speed boost you are talking about.

16

I have very limited confidence in the accuracy of any swim course and I don’t trust Garmin too much either.

I do have a lot of anecdotal experience.

I am often capable of winning the AG swim in IM events.

I believe:

A wetsuit is similar to a pull buoy (but even more significant).
It probably does NOT significantly speed up, a fast, in shape, swimmer going full throttle.
It DOES make it vastly easier to swim a moderate pace for a longer distance.

5-10 seconds)/100 seems reasonable adjustment.

I suspect, however, that much of this savings is expressed in energy conservation.

Typically for an IM with wetsuit I would be:
51:30

Without - 53 (and a significantly more tired).

17

As mentioned, there is and was a significant current in the course, as well as it being short. But it was the paces within the swim that show.

Outgoing tide from a harbour, mainly left to ride water movement.

First 275m were up the beach into the general current. However water really shallow if you were on the beach side not swimable so lots of people stopping and walking. If on right side of course then could swim, but equally as so shallow then the speed of current very mnimal. That said, those at front of waves would have a current that they expereinced, but as normal, those in teh ‘pack’ behind shielded. As it was the short first leg then this meant mid swimmers stayed on feet of the stronger to the first turn.

At this point it was a 160 degree turn and then the big long leg with full current assist. I averaged 1:15/100m for this. In this case the current minimises the speed differences between swimmers and I got lucky to have a single swimmer to draft off that was taking the correct line. Most seemed to go slightly left (even to teh point of going wrong side of the first mid point bouy). This added to their swim distance, but also minimised the current assist they got. Again, on that course you want to be heading towards the monument for the max current.

Then there was a real trick to the course at the second turn (short leg to shore). That had the huge head and cross current. But more the third bouy was hidden behind a boat so you needed to do a dog leg. The smaller the god leg the shorter you went and critically as this was where the water was working against you most, then you could lose a lot of time here. And I think that’s what happened to quite a few people. There was a lifesaver on a board guiding people to the right of the boat blocking the bouy, but then I think a lot of people fought the current too much and went too far right, then needed to backtrack further.

Last leg along the beach, essentially if you went along the beach you swim a big banana - follow the bouys and it’s straight. In this case the eddy current you get means you don’t fully pay for the assist once you get away from the boat ramp.

Final thing, that shallow finish also gave lots of chance to gain/lose time/places. If you swam as far as you could then you could save a little time over those that stood and walked in the waist deep. But where it got most significant is if once you stopped swimming when it was too shallow to get a full pull, and then skipped/ran out the water you hit the timing mat long before those wading through the water.

Last time I did Tga then Taupo full I did 31min flat here and 1h07m in Taupo.

For context, I always have a significantly better ‘placing’ in this swim than Taupo. And in squad swims I’m with similar people (apart from one) pool to OW where we all know the currents.

From Saturday my 500m split averages were 1:35/100m, 1:14, 1:48 and 1:54 (for last 375m).

18

its a fool’s errand to look at an OWS time and try and determine what your pace was. With variable course length, current, and sighting there is just too much noise in your pace for it to mean anything on an absolute basis.

The main thing I look for in evaluating the swim is how I did against the competitors Im familiar with. Was my delta to them more or less than I expected?

To answer your question, in a 50M pool I’m about 7 seconds per 100 faster in a wetsuit vs a fastskin tri suit and about 10 versus a normal swim suit. But if you are a major leg sinker you might benefit more.

19

I can’t believe no one has provided the real answer.

It’s so obvious…

He’s Finman!!!

OK, carry on with legitimate reasons.

20

Well someone here has a couple times told you the swim was short, and really short. And for everyone saying 5 to 10 seconds, that is for top FOP swimmers, this guy is not that.

We used to track in the old days how much folks got out of wetsuits. Couple personal factors like natural buoyancy and speed swam, but it tracked pretty well with the slower you are, the more you got out of the suit. Some pros only get 5 to 6 seconds, the folks racing for the cutoff can get 30 seconds or more per 100. You are probably in the 15 second range I would imagine, and it you are a good drafter, then perhaps 20 seconds a 100 faster in the OW.

So factor in perhaps 5 to 7 minutes for a short course for guys in your range, and a good draft and you had a great swim. Nothing nefarious going on, no buoys have to have been cut, just a good swim for the course on the day. A lot of folks in the 2 minute per 100m range have horrible body positions, and the wetsuit basically fixes it all. So if it is not your stroke making you that slow, then it all gets put into propulsion once you have your floatie on… Heavy boned sinkers also get a ton out of wetsuits, not sure that is you though?