I started swimming autumn 2014.
I had problem finishing 1000 m breast stroke and 25 m freestyle.
Here are my 400 m results (50 m pool)
15-02-24 9,23 15-03-26 9,13 15-05-02 8,11 15-07-01 7,2 15-08-19 7,16 15-10-27 6,53 16-01-10 6,49
I have not done any tests since 10 jan, but I guess I could do 6.30 now.
I started training with a triathlon club February 2015 and during 2015 I swam in average 1.5-2 sessions a week, ~3500 m (a little bit more on the autumn). I got a lot of improvements in the beginning, but even thou I increased the amount of swimming I did not get faster.
I’m 187 cm 76 kg and 32 years. I’ve been training all my life and I though I would be more talented swimmer. Some of my club mates do sub6 min with similar amounts of training. So I guess that I’m not that talented as a swimmer as I am runner/biker.
My crural and ass are quite muscular and sinks (I improve the times alot with wet suit and neopren shorts).
This year I have swam about 8000 m/w.
So give me you’re best advice’s 
How much should I swim?
I can run 10k in 35 min and have about 320-330 watt in ftp.
What would be a similar level for swimming? sub 5.30? sub 5? in 400 m.
What is needed to get there? 20km/w?
How much can I improve until summer 2017?
I have a lot of time of swimming and the winter/spring 2016/2017 I plan not to work.
I know not is only about the amount of swimming, but I have good swim trainers looking at my technique a couple of
times a week.
Thanks
If you really want to improve your swim, 8km/ week isn’t going to cut it in my opinion. Others may say differently.
If you really want to improve your swim, 8km/ week isn’t going to cut it in my opinion. Others may say differently.
I think you are correct! My goal right now is 5x a week and more then 10km, but I need to increase also…
How much do you think is needed?
It really depends. When I was 14, I moved from central Iowa to Southwest Michigan. My first summer there, I couldn’t go under 1:00 in the 100y free. I spent the summer swimming 2 hours a day/6 days a week for the first time ever. Later in the winter, I did a :58 from a push. The next summer, my club had a deal with two pools, so I did 2 a days 3-5 times a week (mornings in my regular club pool that was actually farther away from home, and afternoons in the alternate outdoor pool), and went to Michigan swim camp. I was then focusing on the 500 and 200 and again had dramatic time improvements.
Mind you, I probably grew a bit (all though I’m only 5’7"/170cm, so it’s not like I grew much) and hormones and all (Male), but it just goes to show you what hard work can do. I’m not saying you have to swim 20 hours a week, but I am saying that you can’t take shortcuts. Edit: not saying you are taking shortcuts, but that there aren’t any shortcuts that will let you work “less hard”.
Others may disagree with this.
You can definitely improve your times, but more importantly, you can improve your comfort and efficiency. In other words, you can get out of the water and be ready to hop on the bike.
How often do you run to go sub 35? How often do you bike to have an ftp over 300?
I bet both of those answers are more than twice a week for an hour.
A lot of people are looking for this magic technique change to get fast, and while technique is important there comes a point where you need to put in the hard yards and lots of them.
I was able to get down to about 6:00 400m swimming 3 times a week, upped it to 4 and dropped to about 5:15, and then finally went to 5x2 hours and was able to go 4:36. There some small stroke changes in there but most of the improvement came from swimming.
How often do you run to go sub 35? How often do you bike to have an ftp over 300?
I bet both of those answers are more than twice a week for an hour.
A lot of people are looking for this magic technique change to get fast, and while technique is important there comes a point where you need to put in the hard yards and lots of them.
I was able to get down to about 6:00 400m swimming 3 times a week, upped it to 4 and dropped to about 5:15, and then finally went to 5x2 hours and was able to go 4:36. There some small stroke changes in there but most of the improvement came from swimming.
I’m not out for a magic bullet. I will put in the hours needed. But I just curious about how I need to swim much and what short term goals that are reasonable.
I have realized that I’m about average in talent in swimming. This is not the case for run and bike, since I have been swimming more then running, since I started triathlon.
How long did you swim 3 times a weke? 4 times and 5x2h? are we talking years or months? 
thanks
I was basically one year at each, but you can increase a bit quickly. That was just what I had available at each time as I progressed and then I was finally able to train with a varsity team at my university the last 2 years.
Well e ne on improvements so far. Like all training there’s a diminishing return the quicker you get. As these are pool times you’ll find huge gains from getting better at turns/push offs/streamlining/breakout. This won’t make you faster in open water per se. It will mean you can keep up with the faster swimmers which will mean you will be pushed harder during the swim phase which should provide results. You’ll have benefited from this since joining the tri club.
Have you asked this question of your coach? They should have an understanding of how much technical improvement is left vs hard graft required to meet your goals.
Setting technique to one side. You and your coach need to look at the type of training you’re doing not just the volume. As you’re in a club environment you’ve likely got a better setup than many triathletes who I’ve seen plodding up and down non-stop for hours on end. There may however be something they can do to tailor workouts for you, even moving you into a different lane can result in adaptation - 1st week you may not keep up on all the reps but after 3/4 weeks you can.
Returning to volume for what it’s worth I notice a big difference between a 1hr session and a 1.5-2hr session. The longer duration allows for more reps, greater rest and the chance to do additional things that I’d squeeze out from a 1hr session owing to the limited time. Swimming 2x/day needs to be thought out carefully with your coach.
How often do you run to go sub 35? How often do you bike to have an ftp over 300?
I bet both of those answers are more than twice a week for an hour.
A lot of people are looking for this magic technique change to get fast, and while technique is important there comes a point where you need to put in the hard yards and lots of them.
I was able to get down to about 6:00 400m swimming 3 times a week, upped it to 4 and dropped to about 5:15, and then finally went to 5x2 hours and was able to go 4:36. There some small stroke changes in there but most of the improvement came from swimming.
Are your times LCM, SCM, or a mix??? As I know you know, the pool length makes a sig diff. In any case, 4:36 for 400 scm or lcm is very good for a tri-guy:)
I started swimming autumn 2014.
I had problem finishing 1000 m breast stroke and 25 m freestyle.
Here are my 400 m results (50 m pool)
15-02-24 9,23 15-03-26 9,13 15-05-02 8,11 15-07-01 7,2 15-08-19 7,16 15-10-27 6,53 16-01-10 6,49
I have not done any tests since 10 jan, but I guess I could do 6.30 now.
I started training with a triathlon club February 2015 and during 2015 I swam in average 1.5-2 sessions a week, ~3500 m (a little bit more on the autumn). I got a lot of improvements in the beginning, but even thou I increased the amount of swimming I did not get faster.
I’m 187 cm 76 kg and 32 years. I’ve been training all my life and I though I would be more talented swimmer. Some of my club mates do sub6 min with similar amounts of training. So I guess that I’m not that talented as a swimmer as I am runner/biker.
My crural and ass are quite muscular and sinks (I improve the times alot with wet suit and neopren shorts).
This year I have swam about 8000 m/w.
So give me you’re best advice’s
How much should I swim?
I can run 10k in 35 min and have about 320-330 watt in ftp.
What would be a similar level for swimming? sub 5.30? sub 5? in 400 m.
What is needed to get there? 20km/w?
How much can I improve until summer 2017?
I have a lot of time of swimming and the winter/spring 2016/2017 I plan not to work.
I know not is only about the amount of swimming, but I have good swim trainers looking at my technique a couple of
times a week. Thanks
Looking at the track WR for the 10,000 m, 35:00 is about 33% slower than the WR of 26:18. If we take 33% slower than the pool WR of 3:40 for 400 LCM, then 4:53 would be about 33% slower. Some will debate this mode of calculation, but as a rough estimate it works pretty well. As to whether you could actually get to 4:53, that is an entirely diff question and one that you can only answer yourself. As several other posters have pointed out, you’ll prob need to be swimming 5-6 days/wk at 4-5 km per session to see what you can really do. Learning to swim back and fly might be helpful also, just to give your training a bit more variety. It sounds like you are already a natural breaststroker. I like to swim sets of 200 IM, 200 IM kick (w/o k-board), 200 choice, and 400 free or free pull; since the kicking and non-free strokes are slower, this 1000 m sequence swims like 1250 m of freestyle on a time basis, so doing it 4 times over is a solid 5000 m workout. My freestyle always feels fast and easy after all the stroke work:)
You could improve your swim significantly on less than 15k a week, but you would need to be in the water 5-6 days a week.
Without seeing your stroke and how you move in the water it would be impossible to say how much you could improve or not. But based on your stats in the bike and run and assuming you don’t have any major mechanical issues, swimming under 5:30/400 would not be too tough.
The best way to improve your swimming is getting a video analysis done on your freestyle stroke. You can do 20km a week, but if your technique has major flaws in it, your progess will be severely limited. Also you don’t have to go crazy with the volume, more about quality rather than quantity. We might do 5kms in a squad session, but a lot of that is wasted laps. So if you were time limited and could only manage 4 x 2km a week, it would be a case of ensuring those 2km sessions are hard i.e minimise warmup, cool down and drills. If I swim in my lunch break that’s what I’ll do. Virtually every lap is done hard. I’ll do something like:
400m wu (close to race pace so not really a wu)
200m drills e.g 50m scull, 50 freestyle
12 x 100m on 1.30 - 1.20 depending on my fitness, but basically 10s break max
200m cool down, done at moderate pace.
That’s a 35min workout that leaves me feeling more whacked than some 1.30hr 4km sessions.