Those hear who began triathlon with almost no running background, how long did it take for you to get fast?
1year of steady training? 5 years? What type of volume did it take?
Is this article reasonable? http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/How_to_Kill_Your_10k_PR_258.html
I went from running mid 1:50s (8:40s/mile) in a half marathon to 1:36:xx (7:24/Mile) over the course of a winter. I know there are those that wouldn’t consider that fast but I think it’s pretty good gains over one winter (roughly 6 months).
I ran at between 4 to 6 times during the week. Very easy running (30 to 40Mins) after work.
I followed BarryP running plan.
Results will vary. I missed a lot of days towards the end of the plan as I was ramping up for Shamrock 1/2 Marathon.
When you did that were you training equally for all three sports, or did you heavily bias towards running.
Awesome job on the speed gains by the way. I would be absolutely pumped to reach the HM pace (I am currently about the speed you were)
I leaned my training more on the run portion but still did my trainer workouts every week (2 to 3x/week). The bike training was really base building so wasn’t burning out my legs for the run.
I maybe swam once a week but I have a background in distance swimming. Swimming one time per week would still put me out of the water in top 15% of swimmers.
First race I did since HS was in 2001, when I was 33. 5 miles, 36:04: 7:13 min/mile
My best race was in 2008. 5K, 16:58, 5:28 min/mile
So, 7 years. Lost ~45 lbs in that time. Max mileage was ~90 mpw during one of the winters. Probably avg’d 50-60 mpw Sept-March and 35 mpw Apr-Aug when I would increase cycling.
A good chance this thread will turn in to a volume vs intensity debate, but for me both were useful. My 5K pr came after 12 weeks of 5k specific training with a lot of intensity (and a loit of rest), but the volume I’d done previous to that set the table. When I was just starting and fat I tried to run too fast and add mileage too quickly. I figure I had just about every runner injury you can imagine. Once I started being patient and running 6-7X/week I was able to jack the mileage up at a reasonable rate and became much less injury prone.
Good luck. Chopping 2-3 secs/mile per month doesn’t seem like much at the time but 7 years later it’s not bad.
A lot depends on age, build and genetics. Lets not forget risk of injury too. I’ve seen people start running and within 2 years are pushing sub 3 marathons and I’ve seen people running for 10 years and can’t break an 8:30 mile.
I’d been running for about 6-7 years when I got into the 1:18 half marathon range. Took me 4 years to get it to 1:16, although I was focusing on ironman and marathon training during that time
The term fast is relative, but it all depends on where you are and where you want to be honestly.
for a lot of people, the increase of frequency will do wonders. Look on here at the 100 day running challenge that Dev does. Some great results simply from running 30 minutes a day for 100 days straight. If you’re body can’t handle 30 minutes then you’re either running to fast, or you need to reduce the volume initially. However, frequency can cause huge increases in running efficiency/fitness.
Beyond frequency is where you would get into intensity and volume and there are two different trains of thought here and the training has to fit your lifestyle and goals. Can’t really give specifics on this as that would be a case-by-case situation.
If you aren’t running 6-7 days a week and you want to be a fast runner… I’d start there. I’d start slow and easy so you can ensure the frequency each week.
You can get pretty fast in 1 year. Faster the years that follow as aerobic endurance builds upon previous seasons.
I’m 40 now, and I had zero running background. I did not run growing up. I was not an athlete, though I was recreationally athletic as a kid. So I came into running & triathlons with no base, history, or understanding of what is fast & what is slow.
I ran my first half marathon in 2013 in 2:17:20. My first full marathon was a year later at age 38 & I finished in 4:11:54.
This past March, exactly three years later, I ran that same half marathon in 1:39:40. I ran the half marathon leg of the Chattanooga 70.3 two weeks ago in 1:50. My last marathon was in 2015 & I did that in 3:43.
I’m currently training to run the Chicago Marathon & while my ultimate goal is to one day BQ (3:15 qualifying time for me), I am happy with continuous progress. So if I can get my marathon time anywhere south of 3:30 this year, I will be thrilled.
At the start, I was pure running & I was uncoached. I was using the Galloway run-walk-run method. I got a coach once I got into triathlons & the first thing he did was toss the Gallowalking and have me do a lot of base Z1/Z2 running. I have a very balanced training plan where I workout every day and mix S/B/R in evenly. With only Chicago ahead of me now, I will run about 5 times a week until October. I will still have a long bike on the weekends & a swim once a week, but my plan will now shift to primarily running to get faster.
Not much running background.
2nd year in triathlon I ran a 1:28 half marathon. After 6-7 years, I got that down to 1:18 with HIM run splits in the mid-1:20s. So I’d go with the 5-7 years of consistent running. The thing that made the biggest difference was to slow down and run more often (5-7 days/week). Running 50-60 miles/week now and as fast as I’ve ever been at longer distances (Age 40)
I went from 1:50-1:55 (guessing, but that’s my pace when I “jump in” to a half marathon with little to no training) to 1:35 over a winter. Just joined a local running group, and showed up. Hard runs on Wed, long runs on Sat, plus an easy and temp run during the week. Probably lost 10 lbs over the course of the winter.
During that time I swam masters twice a week, and rode a few hours a week, so, no crazy mileage, but it was consistent.
Running 30-45 miles per week, put me in the 3:35 - 4:00 marathon range for 4 years.
The year I bumped it to 60-70 mpw, I BQ at 3:14:xx
Nowadays, I run 80-100 mpw when specifically training for marathons. That volume has placed me at 3:00:xx a few times and 3:01-3:03 a few other times.
Nowadays, I run 80-100 mpw when specifically training for marathons. That volume has placed me at 3:00:xx a few times and 3:01-3:03 a few other times.
How often do you replace your shoes, and do you track the mileage on each of them (assuming you rotate through several pair)? I need to up my mileage, but when I see people putting up numbers like this, I have to think to myself that they are blasting through a pair of shoes a month on average.
In October of 2008 I ran a half marathon in 1:48 ish and after a winter of dropping 30lbs and training I ran a half marathon in 1:31 in April of 2009 and wrapped it up in October of 2009 running the same half in 1:23. Took a lot of work and training and the weight loss helped a bunch.
On the marathon side I made a huge jump in one year going from 3:10ish to 2:58 ish.
As with many people probably, I made big gains early on, but I have had only marginal gains since and I am not getting any younger.
What helped me the most:
Those hear who began triathlon with almost no running background, how long did it take for you to get fast?
1year of steady training? 5 years? What type of volume did it take?
Is this article reasonable? http://www.slowtwitch.com/...Your_10k_PR_258.html
I started with absolutely zero athletic background of any kind. I got into endurance sports in an attempt to be less fat.
In 2010 I ran my first half marathon and just squeaked in under 2hrs (1:58 or something like that). Also ran my first marathon that year following a Hal Higdon plan and managed a 4:40 or so.
In 2011 I concentrated on running more and managed a 3:28 marathon.
I got serious in 2013, did a couple IMs. Got a coach since 2014.
Last year (2015) I ran a 3:04 marathon and had a 3:24 IM run as part of a 9:57 day.
So it took me about 6 years to go from total spud to what (I hope) most would consider reasonably quick.
As for volume, if you average out my weekly time spent over the past 2 years, including all rest weeks, time off, and all big build weeks, it works out to about 12 hours a week of a fairly proportional balance of swim, bike and run. I personally believe that consistency week in and week out trumps any specific magic plan. Sure the big workouts and the big builds are important, but in order to really be able to go long and fast you have to be working at it every week, constantly, for years. There just isn’t a way around it, especially if you are like me and have zero athletic background to start from.
My elite runner friends say the formula is that you are your fastest 8 years from whenever you begin serious training. I am way over that hump for sure; but, we are doing an interesting experiment with my wife. We are interested if this very scientific 8 year rule applies regardless of age. She started running at 49 and we are closing in on the 8 years . . . she is still getting faster and typically (almost always) wins her age group. We’ll see if she starts the down side in 1 year.
My elite runner friends say the formula is that you are your fastest 8 years from whenever you begin serious training. I am way over that hump for sure; but, we are doing an interesting experiment with my wife. We are interested if this very scientific 8 year rule applies regardless of age. She started running at 49 and we are closing in on the 8 years . . . she is still getting faster and typically (almost always) wins her age group. We’ll see if she starts the down side in 1 year.
This is true, but in reality, GENETICS will determine your speed more than anything else as a young adult/teenager. As an adult, those genetics are still there, but are often masked by significant weight gain and lack of training.
Remember that your elite runner friend likely got down to a 16:xx 5k in less than a year of serious training. Those additional 7 years probably took him from 16:xx to low 15:xx or even high 14:xx.
So the genetics alone were pretty much solely responsible for the speed that gets him to ‘fast’ (16:xx), while the training gets him from ‘fast’ to ‘even faster.’
If you’ve been training seriously for a year, and you’re running 24 min 5ks at best, 7 years of training will get you faster, but you won’t be sniffing an 18:xx (if even a 20:xx), unless you were really slacking during your alleged ‘serious’ year of training.
First race I did since HS was in 2001, when I was 33. 5 miles, 36:04: 7:13 min/mile
My best race was in 2008. 5K, 16:58, 5:28 min/mile
So, 7 years. Lost ~45 lbs in that time. Max mileage was ~90 mpw during one of the winters. Probably avg’d 50-60 mpw Sept-March and 35 mpw Apr-Aug when I would increase cycling.
A good chance this thread will turn in to a volume vs intensity debate, but for me both were useful. My 5K pr came after 12 weeks of 5k specific training with a lot of intensity (and a loit of rest), but the volume I’d done previous to that set the table. When I was just starting and fat I tried to run too fast and add mileage too quickly. I figure I had just about every runner injury you can imagine. Once I started being patient and running 6-7X/week I was able to jack the mileage up at a reasonable rate and became much less injury prone.
Good luck. Chopping 2-3 secs/mile per month doesn’t seem like much at the time but 7 years later it’s not bad.
Did you lose pretty much all the ~ 45lbs after the 36:04 for 5 miles? If you don’t mind what was your weight then?
Thanks,
Hugh
“Did you lose pretty much all the ~ 45lbs after the 36:04 for 5 miles? If you don’t mind what was your weight then?”
Yes. I’m 5’10". I was ~195 at the biggest, which was when I ran the 5 miler. It was the first race I’d run since HS track (~15 years) and how hard I had to work to run 7+ minute miles was the turning point.
Are you looking at your run off a bike or your run independently? Most ride too hard so their run suffers. In that case it’s hard to indicate how good of a runner one actually is. I had a strong running background before entering tri. I can pretty much do 1-2 runs a week (8-10mi/wk) and always be in 17:30min 5k shape. I would imagine it’s similar to how swimmers can swim only 10-12k a week and still be pretty good swimmers.
The individual is pretty important too. Example: I had a teammate (athlete A) on my college XC team that ran 100mpw for most of his career and ran 30:40 for 10k. Another teammate (athlete B) of similar build ran maybe 60mpw and ran 31:13 for 10k. He didn’t run as fast, but did nearly 50% less volume. In my opinion the reason for this was mostly because in high school athlete A ran 70mpw and athlete B ran maybe 25-30mpw. The reason I think this is relevant is because volume is relative. If your background is weaker, then immediately jumping to big volume with intent to stay consistent there will most likely result in injury. Consistency allows for increase in volume.
To summarize, consistency is everything, but I’ve found that people often mistake frequency for consistency. If you keep volume and frequency consistent, I think one could see major gains in the first initial year or two. Then the law of diminishing return becomes a larger factor. If you have a strong background in any discipline, then a little volume will take you pretty far. However, if you want to really see drops in time then I think putting large focus on that for a particular training block or period is needed.
Good luck.