Here’s the story… I walk into my local bicycle shop yesterday and say, can you lower my drop bars? They give me a funny look. I say, I’m into triathlons and want to get aero. I show them how low I would like the drop bars to falls, they look at me like I’m crazy.
For those with a road bike doing triathlons, how low do the bottom of your drop bars go? For example, I saw a picture online where the drop bars were literally the same height as the bike wheels!
My CR1 is slammed, with Ergonova bars. It’s still a bit higher than the top of the tire though… neg stem for that I suppose.
You can lower your drop bars to get more aero, but you will also be compressing your body and losing power at the same time.
Road bikes are optimized for power with a slack seat tube angle and high drop bars.
Tri bikes get lower in order to get more aero, but at the same time they address the problem of power by steepening the seat tube angle.
(There are a thousand people on Slowtwitch who know more about this than me, but this is my understanding).
I saw a picture online where the drop bars were literally the same height as the bike wheels!
This is going to be dependent on the height of the head-tube mostly and the actual drop of the drop bars and how many spacers you have on the steerer or how high you want/like your front end. On smaller frames with shorter head tubes, yes, the drops might be level with the top of the front wheel.** **The picture below is my 58 Cervelo R3 with a 3T Ergonova bar( a pretty shallow drop bar) with no spacers other than the top cap of the head set.
I haven’t measured it exactly, but I’d say I’ve got about 6-7 cm of drop on my Talon SL which has an 11.5cm head tube and non-integrated Chris King Headset, and set up at 74 deg seat angle. The stem is slammed on top of the headset. For reference, my TT bike has a 13.5 cm drop, using a 78 degree seat angle.
#1) why do you think lowering your drop bars would make you more aero?
#2) If you want to get lower while riding in the drops then bend your elbows
Thanks all for you comments! To answer the questions:
#1) why do you think lowering your drop bars would make you more aero?
Part of it has to do with my bicycle. I had a tri bike set up as a road bike (since I would be riding it in the city). Part may have to do with my long arms, which reduce the angle I get through the drop bars. Part might be that the bike was setup initially with a hefty chunk of spacers. The lower I go, the more comfortable I feel even though the angle becomes more aggressive. Its a bit counter-intuitive, even to myself!
#2) If you want to get lower while riding in the drops then bend your elbows
If you go this route, wouldn’t you tire out after a while. I’m guessing there would be a best natural bend in the elbows.
#3) Okay, I am adding this one. Has anyone tried to reverse an angled stem to achieve a lower drop?
I am guessing that I have about 6" (125mm?) of drop from my seat to the TOP of my road bars. They drop portion of the bars will be another 100-110mm lower than that.
It’s the right road bike fit for me. Being on the drops is pretty aero. Ideally the right pair of clip on bars would have me exactly that low, but with my elbows supported and my arms tucked in nicely in front of me with horizontal forearms.
My point is that you can and should start with the right road bike fit. Just explain to them you want an aggressive road race fit.
Fleck, you’re one of the people I learn the most from on Slowtwitch, so I’m only asking this to learn more: Isn’t it a bit counterintuitive to get an R-series bike, and then lower the bars that much? If you’re going for comfort, go R-series and keep the bars high. Or if you want speed/aero, go S-series and lower the bars. (I read your blog entry on your R-series, btw.)
I’m pretty sure the r series and the s series bikes have the same height head tubes, per size. only the RS has the higher head tube, R3 and R3-SL are the same as all the S sereies bikes.
Perhaps the problem is the bike shop I am going to. They are competent at the basics… although one of the mechanics did admit, it’s not like we get carbon wheels in here… Alright, that settles it. I’ll have a dedicated Tri shop drop my handlebars to the right height!
Perhaps the problem is the bike shop I am going to. They are competent at the basics… although one of the mechanics did admit, it’s not like we get carbon wheels in here… Alright, that settles it. I’ll have a dedicated Tri shop drop my handlebars to the right height!
Uhm, doode–how about you bust out that old school 5mm wrench and do it yourself? We’re not talking plasma physics here. Get your saddle height in the right range and angle, and put the bars where they feel low and comfortable to you. If something feels out of whack–tweak it up a little bit.
That said, do employ your local tri shop, they can probably use all the patronage they can get. Don’t expect a good fit though.
You should see the drop bars on my P3!
Isn’t it a bit counterintuitive to get an R-series bike, and then lower the bars that much? If you’re going for comfort, go R-series and keep the bars high. Or if you want speed/aero, go S-series and lower the bars.
With respect I think you may be looking at this a bit backwards. I choose a bike and the various fit components such as the stem and the handle-bars based on my fit and comfort. I have been riding in more or less the same road position for 25 years. The trick is adapting the stuff under me, and under me, the R3 was the best ( and as someone else noted, the geometry in the S-series is the same) The RS was too high in the front end for me in my size. I would have had to use a stem that sloped down slightly to get the tops back down to the level that I like them at, so that would have been defeating the purpose of the taller head-tube on the RS. On the R3 I have the stem set down as low as it can go, and it’s perfect.
On a road bike, you want to establish a comfortable and powerful position first - a position that you can ride comfortably in for many hours in, but still sprint and climb with good power transmission. You want to be able to utilize fully the three key hand positions on the bars - the tops, the hoods and the drops. Aerodynamics, is not the least of your concerns, but it’s no where near as important as comfort and power transmission.
Thanks all for you comments! To answer the questions:
#1) why do you think lowering your drop bars would make you more aero?
Part of it has to do with my bicycle. I had a tri bike set up as a road bike (since I would be riding it in the city). Part may have to do with my long arms, which reduce the angle I get through the drop bars. Part might be that the bike was setup initially with a hefty chunk of spacers. The lower I go, the more comfortable I feel even though the angle becomes more aggressive. Its a bit counter-intuitive, even to myself!
If you have long arms then you may need to lower your bars more than others, but ‘lowering’ per say does not necessarily mean more aero. You are more aero with your elbows at 90 degrees and your forearms flat than your arms straight down acting like a brick wall against the wind
#2) If you want to get lower while riding in the drops then bend your elbows
If you go this route, wouldn’t you tire out after a while. I’m guessing there would be a best natural bend in the elbows.
When you first start riding your bike you tire out after 10 miles, then 20 miles, etc. You get used to it
http://velonews.competitor.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/tour-of-oman-stage-6/boasson.jpg
#3) Okay, I am adding this one. Has anyone tried to reverse an angled stem to achieve a lower drop?
Yes
On a road bike, you want to establish a comfortable and powerful position first - a position that you can ride comfortably in for many hours in, but still sprint and climb with good power transmission. You want to be able to utilize fully the three key hand positions on the bars - the tops, the hoods and the drops. Aerodynamics, is not the least of your concerns, but it’s no where near as important as comfort and power transmission.
I’m fairly new to this, so maybe I’m being naive, but aren’t there going to be situations where the right fit changes depending on your strategy for the ride?
It would seem that there must be trade-offs between aero, comfort, power and handling. On a long ride, you might favour comfort and raise your bars. In a short race, you might drop your bars to favour aero. Or change your seat position to improve power at the expense of comfort.
The way you describe it, it makes it sound like there is one right fit for every person, regardless of bike, course, length of ride, etc.
For example, l rode a flat 100km course around Richmond a few weeks ago with low drop bars and a forward saddle. It gave me more power/aero, but by the end of the ride my hands were numb from the weight on them. Then last weekend I rode 300km (Vancouver-Pemberton-Vancouver) with my bars higher and my seat back for comfort on the long ride and to help with the climb. You’re saying I should ride the same position on both?
Position does indeed vary on what you’re trying to achieve. I generally don’t move the bars around, but I’ll change how I use them. For criteriums, it’s in the drops all the time (this is also a safety thing to prevent locking bars). For fast on the flats, I personally prefer arms flat on the hoods with elbows bent. I find this gives a bit better speed than having arms fully extended down in the drops, but as others have said, you can get tired. You do get used to it eventually… just increasingly bend your elbows a bit more and more until you’re comfy with a (nearly) flat back. Make sure to rotate hand positions as well.
As far as the R3’s go… just got one of my own, and find it very comfortable to get low low drops while still maintaining high power output. Bit shorter reach vs. my old bike goes a long way to accomplishing this.
I’m not Fleck, but drag on the body is ~75% of total aerodynamic drag. The bike frame is a pretty small part of the equation and the difference between smartwall and squoval tubing is lessened when one adds two bottle cages to the mix. Would an S-series bike be faster? Probably, but my guess is that the difference is not that great and I like the comfort of the R3, even in a low position.
I’m 5’10" tall and riding a 54cm R3SL, 72.5cm saddle height, 11cm stem with no spacers under the bar and a low rise top cap on the head set. Plenty comfy and pretty aero. Not sure about total drop.
Tri bike - same saddle height with ~4.5" of drop. Not Bjornesque, but enough to get my back relatively flat.
This all makes sense. I guess I didn’t think about the fact that the drops and the hoods are your “strategic fit.” The drops are more aero but less comfortable, the hoods more comfortable but less aero.
The R-series bikes are great, wish I could afford one. Would make a great complement to a P2C.
Used R-series aren’t too unreasonable (I’ve seen them in the classifieds here for ~2k). I bought and built a 4 year old (but mint) ride of my own for a little over half the retail cost of a new. Then again, I only got mine after a post-crash insurance settlement :-\
