During his delayed victory speech at IM 70.3 Boulder yesterday, Callum Milward mentioned the peleton following them on the run, how it seemed they all wanted the Americans to win, and called out Joe Gambles specifically for supporting Ben Hoffman openly and that he’s never supporting Joe again (was hard to tell if that was a joke or not…)
There was definitely a group of friends and supporters of the front pack of pros following them on bikes during the entire course. A friend of mine who was photographing the race says he heard Gambles telling Ben, “Let them surge, Ben, just sit back and…” while Callum was surging.
How is this not a pacing violation? Not just on Joe’s part but on the part of all the people riding with the racers, other than the lead biker and officials?
If my buddy rides along next to me on a bike while I am running in the race, for more than a couple of seconds, that is a pacing violation. Does not matter if he is matching my speed or I am attempting to match his. If he is giving coaching or advice while doing this, that just makes it a stronger violation.
If my coach/friend/wife rides behind me on the course, and an official sees it, that’s a penalty.
There are plenty of threads on slowtwitch discussing this rule. Hell, someone was DQ’s for having a guy in a gorilla suit that they did not even know run next to them for like 15 seconds. Do we ignore it just because it involves top pros that we like? Having your friend ride along with you and give you coaching and advice during the race is not outside assistance?
Maybe Jimmy will come on, but I would say that it doesn’t violate the spirit of the sport although technically it may be a violation. This is somewhat allowed to happen at Kona, especially on the Queen-K, except they don’t allow anyone in the Energy Lab. Maybe that is also one defining aspect of the race because it is so baron. Regardless, here it doesn’t violate the spirit because it would be impossible in my opinion to determine who is helping who, or if anyone is being helped. IMHO violations should be given, in general, when someones gains an unfair competitive advantage. The rider on the far right of the picture is Rudy Von Berg FWIW.
I could give some anecdotes about times when overzealous refs have ruined races by policing for technically violations instead of being practical and understanding the situation. As an athlete, sometimes it is best to let the athletes play the game.
I think this sounds generally right, except that it sounds like it was quite possible to tell, at least with one spectator/athlete combo who was supporting who. Callum certainly noticed this, given his speech, and it seems to have bothered him.
But if this is the case, how are we to know what the line is and how not to cross it? Penalty for this is immediate DQ, so playing in the grey area sounds pretty risky. I’ve asked refs pre-race to clarify certain parts of the outside assistance rule and they always take it VERY literally - for instance I asked that if I take my own hydration bottle with me from T2, when it is empty can I toss it to my wife or must I throw it away at a aid station trash can, I was told I must throw it away. Seems to me that tossing it to my wife does not give me assistance in the race, it just saves me $25. 2 refs at 2 races have told me that. Why is so much more leeway given in this situation? Just happens to be a less lenient ref? Ref doesn’t mind DQ’ing a random AG’er but doesn’t want to rock the boat at the front of the pro race where it will be very controversial?
During his delayed victory speech at IM 70.3 Boulder yesterday, Callum Milward mentioned the peleton following them on the run, how it seemed they all wanted the Americans to win, and called out Joe Gambles specifically for supporting Ben Hoffman openly and that he’s never supporting Joe again (was hard to tell if that was a joke or not…)
There was definitely a group of friends and supporters of the front pack of pros following them on bikes during the entire course. A friend of mine who was photographing the race says he heard Gambles telling Ben, “Let them surge, Ben, just sit back and…” while Callum was surging.
How is this not a pacing violation? Not just on Joe’s part but on the part of all the people riding with the racers, other than the lead biker and officials?
I asked that if I take my own hydration bottle with me from T2, when it is empty can I toss it to my wife or must I throw it away at a aid station trash can, I was told I must throw it away. Seems to me that tossing it to my wife does not give me assistance in the race, it just saves me $25. 2 refs at 2 races have told me that.
Throw it on the ground. Then, she just happens to be the one to pick it up. If they see you it’s only a blue card worst case scenario.
How is this not a pacing violation? Not just on Joe’s part but on the part of all the people riding with the racers, other than the lead biker and officials?
First off, no one was wearing a gorilla suit, so they’re ok from that standpoint
I’m wondering if it’s because it’s not just one runner but rather a group of runners that they are biking next to
So basically if I didn’t like somebody (alot) and wanted them to get DQed I could just run with them for a while (whether they want it or not) until some race official takes notice? (PS: No, not planning on doing that. Its just to show how absurd this seems to me)
So basically if I didn’t like somebody (alot) and wanted them to get DQed I could just run with them for a while (whether they want it or not) until some race official takes notice? (PS: No, not planning on doing that. Its just to show how absurd this seems to me)
pink…You think that might be the reason Lange got a penalty last year in Frankfurt when Faris was besides him for 20 secs.
So basically if I didn’t like somebody (alot) and wanted them to get DQed I could just run with them for a while (whether they want it or not) until some race official takes notice? (PS: No, not planning on doing that. Its just to show how absurd this seems to me)
Yes, and this get back to the overzealous refs. They could even be heckling you… Hence why, given the context of the situation, if the refs had a problem they should first approach you and ask what you are doing, not just put it on the athlete.
The athletes that are on the bikes should know better than to be on the course like that while the race is going on.
Hard to tell if they’re “athletes” in the picture in this thread.
The race officials who witness this did nothing to get the cyclists off the course
Broadly speaking in terms of job descriptions, it’s the job of course marshals to regulate traffic, not race officials. The race official has the job of enforcing the rules of competition, the course marshal enforces the race director’s intended regulation of traffic.
Edit: Unless you meant “race official” to broadly mean all enforcement personnel…just when I hear “race official” I think of the USAT-certified officials. While marshals are often volunteers, etc, with no training in the rules of competition.
So I as an AG athlete I really wouldn’t want to have any of these guys around me to begin with.
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Somehow I suspect you might be relatively safe from the scourge of having an entourage of spectators so interested in your performance that they want track your run on bikes. So this sounds like a win-win for you and the would-be entourage.
Hey everybody - we have to call off that windschatten-pacing group ride. Sorry, it’s a no-go.
