That might sound like a weird question but I’m currently recovering from a Trainerroad build that left me quite fatigued.
Last year I was feeling fatigued for weeks/months and, no surprise, underperformed. This year I wanted to do better, felt awesome during the trainerroad base but the build left me completely wasted again having shorter and worse sleep which enhances the problem even further. But I want to recover with off and easy days now instead of pushing through like I would have done last year. So far it’s quite persistent though…
So what is the sweetspot for you regarding fatigue? How much is okay? When do you back off? How do you adjust your plan? To what point do you recover?
I find it hard following a training plan to be honest because if I get fatigued before the planned rest week I’m very much inclined to push through only to recognize that this was a bad idea
I will note that it’s not just you that finds Trainerroad plans hard, even the base ones - the base one can def be hard if you are indeed coming off low/no training, esp for guys like me in the 40+ crowd. I never take any real totally off blocks from tri training but I do cut back significantly after big races, and the base plan was still surprisingly challenging for me when I did it the first time, had to cut at least one workout from it.
I’m currently finishing up the TR Oly Build plan, and it can get REALLY hard. Like the hardest I’ve ever ridden on an indoor trainer, and I’m no slouch to pain and suffering. I’ve def had to take several extra rest days and cut several workouts to keep it going, and while it has def made me stronger, I do seriously question whether this superstructured all-intervals approach to training is sustainable for long term training.
I actually suspect that the TR plans likely feel a lot more doable and sustainable for their pure cycling plans, as you have more of a ‘base’ on the bike to support those crazy hard intervals or those long tough SS rides. At least that’s my theory - I know for sure if I’m having problems hanging to the Oly training plan, the (possibly large) majority of folks who attempt it are absolutely failing it for the most part.
Bottom line, do NOT feel like you’re failing if you’re unable to keep up the TR workout schedule. Absolutely take those rest days when you feel you’re not going to be able to put up a decent showing on the bike. I’ve learned the hard way that it’s absolutely better to keep the long-term sustainability in plan as opposed to trusting the TR TSS/intensity load settings and sticking to it even if you have to dig super deep. (I strongly feel the Oly plans are too hard as is - exactly as if a bike-specific coach wrote them, and underestimated the toll that significant running/swimming will have on the legs.)
Today? very. Because this weekend was much harder than planned (hard, and long run on Saturday, and very long/hard bike on Sunday). These were both due to conditions mostly out of my control, and I simply had to roll with it.
What did I do today? I ran 45 seconds per mile slower than normal—keeping the entire run down in Z1. I will also simply do a recovery swim tonight after work, instead of the hard swim that is on the books. Hopefully, I will feel better tomorrow and will be able to stay on track for the rest of the week.
I generally don’t like plans with recovery WEEKS built in. I find that these “ramp” too fast, so that you are “dying to rest” by the time the recovery week comes around. I prefer a slower ramp rate that I can sustain “indefinately”. If I dig myself into a hole its a one-off (like this weekend), and I insert 1-2 days of recovery on-the-fly.
If you’ve dug yourself into a deeper hole, you may need more than a day or two of easy/off days to get back to baseline.
How do you monitor your training? I use training peaks, and I use their TSS CTL/ATL/TSB system for monitoring…and managing fatigue/training stress. Whatever tool you use, you need to correlate that with when you feel good and bad…so you can find that middle ground where you can maniupulate how often you feel good and not-so-good.
I try to limit that “oh god my legs” feeling to about 2x a week, or maybe 3x during a race-prep period.
I also try not to build volume and intensity at the same time, but rather pick one or the other. Generally, I build volume first, and then trade it back for more intensity.
These strategies (mostly) keep me from digging a hole deeper than I can climb back out of in a day or two.
Yes, I learned that as well. Trainerroad plans, at least triathlon, are too hard. For some it might be okay, for me, definitely not. It’s just way too much intensity for me. I can take more volume but not so much intensity that 3/4 rides are hard.
What’s interesting is my heart rate intensity distribution though. In the base, where I felt strong and still improved a lot, I had 87% easy zone, rest is mid and high. In the build I had about 64% easy. Which gives me a good indication on how I have to train I guess.
But first… the fatigue has to go away
I don’t know if i keep trainerroad. If yes, then only for handpicked workouts. Tbh now I’m not wondering anymore why they keep talking about getting sick on the tr podcast…
I totally agree with Tom. Basically, if your plan “needs” to have a recovery week, it is too hard on the other weeks.
What works for me is following a bespoke plan made by a coach with the sessions I need to do each week. If I start to feel too tired, I back off a bit on volume or intensity for 1 day or 2 and usually I am ready to go again. The caveat here is that if you have a written plan with what you need to do every week, it takes maturity and self confidence to know when to back off and derail from the plan for a day or two or three.
Re. TrainerRoad I think it’s a good tool and I use it for some workouts it, but I don’t like their plans. It’s just too much intervals, which makes sense when you look it from their perspective. Would you subscribe to TrainerRoad and/or their plans if 80% of your plan’s sessions were Z2 steady rides?
I keep track with trainingpeaks and TSS. I didn’t really have lower TSS in the base phase though where I felt strong. I guess it’s just because I still did some volume but a lot less intensity. Also my ftp might have been underestimated which led to easier workouts.
But anyhow, not all TSS are created equal. And actually with this downtime now I had more ctl in the base than in the build because of skipped or shortened workouts. Consistency was better in the base. I mean it’s a good takeaway, only my next race is 3 months out… So at some point I want to be back on the horse
Pick your poison. You can’t build a high intensity TR plan and expect high intensity swimming and running as well. Somethings gotta give. That means if you want to follow the TR plan, you’ll have to back off some intensity and duration of swimming and running (ie.
active recovery and short tempo stuff).
I keep track with trainingpeaks and TSS. I didn’t really have lower TSS in the base phase though where I felt strong. I guess it’s just because I still did some volume but a lot less intensity. Also my ftp might have been underestimated which led to easier workouts.
Or, it mught be OVERESTIMATED now.
But anyhow, not all TSS are created equal. And actually with this downtime now I had more ctl in the base than in the build because of skipped or shortened workouts. Consistency was better in the base. I mean it’s a good takeaway, only my next race is 3 months out… So at some point I want to be back on the horse
With a properly calibrated FTP, I find cycling TSS to be remarkably equal across a wide range of intensities…at least once the “first time” effect is over…specifically from the perspective of RECOVERY. If you are finding interval sessions of various flavors, and z2 rides all with the same TSS to be remarkably different in terms of recovery…I’d submit that your FTP is probably overestimated—or other aspects of your training are doubling up on your total fatigue.
Are you a cyclist or a triathlete? I can’t tell from the OP. Are you running at the same time with your TR plan?
Anyway, consistency is #1. So, if you’re plan isn’t allowing you to maintain your consistency then you need to adjust somehow. Without knowing more, its hard to provide any real guidance. But, I’d guess dropping an interval session in favor of a z2, and checking that your FTP is correct…maybe even dial it back just a bit, as its usually better to go a little easier than you CAN, than it is to overcook it.
Yes, I learned that as well. Trainerroad plans, at least triathlon, are too hard. For some it might be okay, for me, definitely not. It’s just way too much intensity for me. I can take more volume but not so much intensity that 3/4 rides are hard.
What’s interesting is my heart rate intensity distribution though. In the base, where I felt strong and still improved a lot, I had 87% easy zone, rest is mid and high. In the build I had about 64% easy. Which gives me a good indication on how I have to train I guess.
But first… the fatigue has to go away
I don’t know if i keep trainerroad. If yes, then only for handpicked workouts. Tbh now I’m not wondering anymore why they keep talking about getting sick on the tr podcast…
I missed this post before I posted my second reply. Ok, so triathlete.
For me…I can handle 3 intense leg workouts a week…bike or run…and still manage to swim enough to maintain. Currently, that’s a “mile repeats run”, and a “5x5’ VO2 bike”, and a “2x20 bike”. Anything else is z1 or z2 max. If I add a 4th B or R workout…the swim will suffer. If I want to focus on swimming, I have to drop the intensity on B and R to 1 per week (maybe a max of 2).
Yes, I learned that as well. Trainerroad plans, at least triathlon, are too hard. For some it might be okay, for me, definitely not. It’s just way too much intensity for me. I can take more volume but not so much intensity that 3/4 rides are hard.
What’s interesting is my heart rate intensity distribution though. In the base, where I felt strong and still improved a lot, I had 87% easy zone, rest is mid and high. In the build I had about 64% easy. Which gives me a good indication on how I have to train I guess.
But first… the fatigue has to go away
I don’t know if i keep trainerroad. If ye only for handpicked workouts. Tbh now I’m not wondering anymore why they keep talking about getting sick on the tr podcast…
Are you setting your FTP correctly? Also you can reduce the intensity mid ride if you are struggling. I don’t understand how people can complain the workouts are too hard?
There’s a fun game in figuring out how deep a hole you can dig & bounce out of.
What makes it really tricky is the timescales, ie you can create some sharp fatigue in a day or week & deeper fatigue over a month or training block.
Three key items:
Fuel: often I’ve found deeper fatigue to just be a lack of appropriate fueling, quantity, content and timing are important
Rest: sleep, more sleep more progress.
Focus: you can’t do everything 100%, know what you’re reducing or willing to cut to ensure you achieve your goal.
The Trainerroad build’s are hard, last year I got through sustained power build (mid volume) & was pretty shot, did a 5k on the weekend which went well & then went for a swim… boom. Took me a couple of days to recover, this wasn’t just some general fatigue, i’d fully blown my doors off. (CTL:159,ATL:194,TSB:-32)
Normally I have a faster run on a Tuesday morning, I’ll use this as an indicator of how training is going, assuming that I get up on Tuesday & the run is pretty good then all is well if the rest of the week is a grind that’s fine. If you don’t have a weekly ‘good’ day then I’d look at trying to jimmy the schedule to see if you can get one.
This is interesting all the discussions lately about TR and the difficulty of the workouts. Makes me feel a bit better. I’ve used it the past 2 seasons after making a return to tri’s. The first year did the 3 phase half IM low volume plan, generally went well. Last year I did the full IM low volume plan and it generally went well. This year I decided I’d step it up and try the half IM mid volume plan. Struggled through the base phase which I credited mostly to trying to find the extra time to squeeze in another bike workout. I trimmed a lot of weeks down to 3 rides instead of 4. For most of the sweetspot workouts I would do a zwift race instead. I didn’t have a problem putting out the required work, just struggled with motivation with the interface. I was also trying my first structured run plan with speed/hills/tempo at the same time, so that probably factored in as well. After the base phase I decided to go back down to the low volume plan for the build phase. A few weeks into the plan I waved the white flag. Mentally I couldn’t get up for all those over/under intervals. I just switched over to an 80/20 plan and refocused on a race later in the summer, instead of focusing on my first race. I absolutely love TR, but I think I just need some time away from it.
As for fatigue, for the most part I never minded it, but the past few months I found my breaking point and pulled back. Have to remind myself I’m doing this for fun. When I start to dread the workouts before they even begin, it’s time to scale back, for me.
As touched upon, your age, base fitness, nutrition, rest duration/quality and training intensity will all dictate rest and recover need/frequency.
Post injury, i have a lot of fitness to regain, and due to the nature of my injury, fatigue is common. And with work and a young family, quality sleep is rare. I am also not 18 anymore.
I find that i start to get slower if i overtrain. A few brake days (no training or very light training) really help, as after a night or two off, i am much faster, usually above my prior best. So i usually train 4-5 days a week, with one day being all out.
I have a hard time training lightly, so i often take rest days instead, or shorten duration.
It is not a very scientific training program, but i am doing it for fun/fitness. And at this point in my (poor) fitness, i have nowhere to go but up (23% ftp increase in 2.5 mths). Once i start to plateau from the easy gains, i may do more targeted training.
I use training peaks and the ‘form’ measure, with their guidelines for recovery. I think it’s no more than 2 or 3 days in a hole deeper than -20. I find that’s a good measure for me… in my experience if I push too far past that, I get sick and/or injured.
iv blown gaskets doing TR plans. I have a feeling you could do them if you didnt run/swim. But the oly plan blew me up and i lost a good month trying to shed fatigue and slowly rebuild. I hired a coach as a result as i didnt know when to say when. So much v02 work, threshold etc all in the one week. Over the last month with my coach the bike workouts are much more manageable to the point i feel guilty going so ‘easy’. Most i do is 108% FTP for shorter periods, lots of sweet spot etc mainly. No 120% fTP work anymore and i mostly do sprint tri’s as well! i had a short race on the weekend and did well (for me), so high intensity is not the be all and end all. Just need a sprinkling!
Agree with much of the sentiment mentioned above, but wanted to plug in a podcast from the folks over at TR regarding overtraining, and the difficulty of the grind.
Pertinent starts at ~1:30 mark.
I’m being cautious with them talking about overtraining tbh. They keep talking about how often they get sick and how often they stop training for a longer time. Could be any number of things of course but it would match my experiences with how they train
Have a look at the HRV4Training app. I started using it 6 months ago after somebody here recommended it. Basically you do a 1 minute heart rate variability measurement each morning using either a HR strap or the camera on your phone (I found strap more reliable), and it gives you a recovery score. You can monitor trends over time and I’ve found it really useful to help quantify my level of fatigue/recovery - I.e. when I’m a bit fatigued but can still train normally versus when I’m starting to dig myself into a hole and need to take it easier for a day or 2 rather than making that hole bigger. Also really useful for quantifying the impact of non-training stress e.g. how much my recovery is impacted by poor sleep, work stress, long haul travel, when I’m starting to get ill, etc.
My experience of the TR plans is that the workouts are about spot on if you’re starting each one fairly fresh (I.e. you’ve had ~12+ hours since your last workout, and ~24+ hours since your last hard workout). When I’ve done their tri plans I’ve quite often had to dial the intensity down 5% or stop a session early as I wasn’t able to fit in key swim and run workouts with enough of a break before a TR ride. A month ago I switched to almost pure bike training with the occasional easy ride or swim, and so far haven’t had to skip or dial down a single session (this is on sweetspot high volume plan so 6 rides a week of which 5 are sweetspot rides). Have also noticed that my HRV recovery scores are much more consistent since I’m doing all my cycling first thing in the morning which means I’m pretty well recovered the next morning. When I was doing tri training I often did hard sessions in the evening which had a bigger impact on my recovery scores.
Basically, balancing out good quality training in 3 different sports is bloody hard…
