… rather than being considered someone who goes to pool and flounders down the lane in some fashion?
After almost 2 years of practice, I am finally at the point where 2:00/100scy feels easy, cruise pace ~1:50/100, personal best 100 scy = 1:21
I finally feel like I go to masters swim practice to train, rather than to learn to swim. But I’m still in the slow lane out of 8 lanes. Am I officially a slow swimmer, rather than a flounderer?
Also, how long might it take to get cruise down below 1:30? I’ve knocked off 15 seconds in the past month or 2 and hoping this continues. It would be wonderful to go to swim practice and jump in a middle lane like a swimmer instead of a “slow swimmer”. Hell, maybe some day I’ll be a fast swimmer?? Not “holding my breath” though… haha
Focus on your technique and the little things that you can change or become more efficient with.
Are you doing flip turns? Efficient turns (even open turns) can knock some time off per 100. Plus it helps when you move into a faster lane.
Your fastest time and cruise pace have a good bit of time difference. What effort do you consider “cruise pace”?
jake
Not doing flip turns or even correct open turns yet. Just last month I started working on gliding off each wall (rather than grab, turn & stroke). That cuts some time and really helps with setting up a good (relatively) streamline for the next 20 yards as well. When the weather warms up I might start using the apartment pool to work on flip turns. I still tense up and let water up my nose if I flip though.
“cruise” pace is what we base our lane times on. I think it’s supposed to be the same as threshold. 1:50 “feels” like threshold, 1:45 feels like VO2 max, and 1:20 - 1:45 feel anaerobic.
One theory I have about the time difference is that my form drastically improves as I go faster. I’m the WORST sinker, and couldn’t even get good enough form to work on form (if that makes sense) until I broke 2:00. 1:30 feels way more smooth, I just can’t keep the pace.
The main things I’ve been working on lately are:
small, steady kick (no scissor or pause when I breath)
Just keep working on repeats, keep at the drills, and especially early in the season, don’t be afraid to try new things. Swimming improvements can take a long time. Even in high school when I just started competitive swimming, after those first 3 months, it was a very slow gradual improvement. Top level swimmers train all year to shave 0.1 seconds off a 100 time.
I did some minor stroke overhaul and I’m cruising with less effort, but I have to retrain my muscles to have strength with the new arm position. I just keep at it, because I know it will get there. I also have to remind myself some to HTFU and push myself a little. I do all my training solo.
Your best 100scy is near mine, and I do flip turns (which are faster), but I cruise for 1500 at 1:35 pace, which is not even a true all-out effort for me for that distance.
I’m a no-talent lousy adult-onset swimmer who tries hard, and honestly it took me over 1.5 yrs of swimming around 7-8k/wk regularly, most of that yardage pretty hard, to go from 1:50 to 1:38. There were no big jumps in progress for me after 1:50/100yds - it was like a second every few months.
Ramping up swim volume periodically to like 15k did help ‘break through’ though. I really should do that more often, but it means almost no bike/run for me if I do that much swimming (even with a Vasa.)
It’ll be worth learning flip turns, though. You don’t even have to do them gracefully - they’ll likely cut 2-3sec/100 off your open turns, even with suboptimal flip turn form. They’re not even that hard to learn/do, but it does take some practice to get your body used to the lack of oxygen for an extra 1-2 seconds during the flip.
The good thing about swimming is that we all can get better… A lot better.
The bad news is that most of us have to work, do stuff for our family, run and bike.
I am sorry to say this but:
A “swimmers” is someone who is fast enough to make the senior squad of an average year round age group swim team. A “slow swimmer” is someone who barely makes it.
Examine the requirements of these teams.
They might be as easy as:
State qualifying times in 2 events for 13&14.
The ability to swim 20 x 100 yards on 1:20, averaging 1:05 pace.
But might be a lot harder also.
This is a ridiculously high standard for most triathletes. Still, can you be a “swimmer” if you belong in the 10-13 year old practice, or worse yet with the 8 and unders?
Personally I claim to be an ex-swimmer, a triathlete, a masters swimmer. That sounds better than a “slow swimmer” anyway.
The good thing about swimming is that we all can get better… A lot better.
The bad news is that most of us have to work, do stuff for our family, run and bike.
I am sorry to say this but:
A “swimmers” is someone who is fast enough to make the senior squad of an average year round age group swim team. A “slow swimmer” is someone who barely makes it.
Examine the requirements of these teams.
They might be as easy as:
State qualifying times in 2 events for 13&14.
The ability to swim 20 x 100 yards on 1:20, averaging 1:05 pace.
But might be a lot harder also.
This is a ridiculously high standard for most triathletes. Still, can you be a “swimmer” if you belong in the 10-13 year old practice, or worse yet with the 8 and unders?
Personally I claim to be an ex-swimmer, a triathlete, a masters swimmer. That sounds better than a “slow swimmer” anyway.
To each their own, I guess.
I don’t think at all that someone who can swim 1:05 pace for 20 x 100 can call themselves a ‘slow swimmer’ by general standards, and anyone who says they’re ‘slow’ at that pace is just sandbagging.
There are a lot of life activities that have very high standards even at the 13 year old level, not just in sport. I was a good enough musician at age 13 that I could be considered ‘professional’ by many standards, and I’d be completely elitist to call any adult who didn’t have my experience or skill level (or decade of high-level training) and non-musician.
Nothing terribly slow about your times right now, and the recent 15-second improvement is huge. I think 1:50 per 100 is roughly mid-pack at many triathlons. The 1:21 for 100 sounds really fast relative to a 1:50 “cruise” pace, so you might want to target aerobic fitness or upper body strength so you can maintain that 1:21 form at slower paces for longer distances.
On sinking legs, the “Total Immersion” books and videos did wonders for me.
Remember, the people zipping around in your local pool are probably the best local swimmers, people who swam competitively and who swim as their primary exercise. I remind myself that they look probably funny when they run, especially in those speedos. I’m never the fastest person in the pool (unless I’m alone), but I’m in the top half of the pack in every tri I do these days.
The good thing about swimming is that we all can get better… A lot better.
The bad news is that most of us have to work, do stuff for our family, run and bike.
I am sorry to say this but:
A “swimmers” is someone who is fast enough to make the senior squad of an average year round age group swim team. A “slow swimmer” is someone who barely makes it.
Examine the requirements of these teams.
They might be as easy as:
State qualifying times in 2 events for 13&14.
The ability to swim 20 x 100 yards on 1:20, averaging 1:05 pace.
But might be a lot harder also.
This is a ridiculously high standard for most triathletes. Still, can you be a “swimmer” if you belong in the 10-13 year old practice, or worse yet with the 8 and unders?
Personally I claim to be an ex-swimmer, a triathlete, a masters swimmer. That sounds better than a “slow swimmer” anyway.
A prefer duathlete forced to float in the summer months
Your PR is pretty close to mine (1:19…with flip turns) but if I understand “cruise” pace correctly…I refer to it as Ironman pace…mine is ~1:40. My masters program has 8-10 lanes and I am generally one over from the slow lane. What I’ve concluded is that in general, North American triathletes are pretty crappy swimmers and even a good triathlete swimmer is significantly slower than someone who grew up swimming competitively.
The bright side is that your current level puts to in front of the majority of triathlete swimmers. I checked out a handful of Ironman race results to see how 1:05, 1:10 & 1:15 placed amongst people who actually finished the swim before the cutoff time. You can’t really compare apples to apples I’m sure some of the swims had short/long swims and/or were with/against the current but I think you can get a general idea.
1:05 (~1:32/100y)
IMOO: Top 7%
IMAZ: 11%
Placid: 11%
CdA: 13%
Cabo: 14% (a lot of people said this swim was long)
Louisville: 17%
. What I’ve concluded is that in general, North American triathletes are pretty crappy swimmers and even a good triathlete swimmer is significantly slower than someone who grew up swimming competitively.
That’s being a little unfair. NA triathlete I think more accurately are polarized. We consistently have some of the fastest swimmers in pro and age groups along with Australia and both countries have very strong swimming programs nationally. But we also have a large group with no swimming background at all. I actually think it’s more the fact that NA athletes are not deterred by their inability to swim well, persevere and compete anyway. I actually have a lot of respect for slower swimmers. I’ve always felt that a 2:00 Olympic distance is a lot easier than a 3:00 Olympic race… and the same for 70.3 and I suspect IM.
I’m not knocking anyone’s efforts or abilities. Just making a general observation. My first IM was 15:38 on a 95+ degree day with big winds. It was certainly harder for me than it was for the winner who went something like 8:18. I never swam competitively or even took lessons. I surfed a fair amount but you don’t do a lot of swimming there.
My observation is based on race results and times. I place pretty well in the swim leg of most tris…I expect to be in the top 25-30% in Cabo…but compared to the guys & gals at Masters, I’m in the bottom 10-20%.
I guess it depends on what you consider “good”. At my last race, I think the first guy out of the water was about 1:03/100y whereas I was about 1:36 and was in the top 25%. By triathlete standards, I’m a pretty good swimmer. By swimmer standards, not so much.
I have been workign on flip turns for several months. Just starting to get them down and I’ve noticed that I’m faster with less effort. Still slow, but faster than with open turns for sure.
I don’t agree that a competitive swimmer would be significantly faster than a good triathlete swimmer in an open water triathlon. If that was the case, you would see people coming out of the water in sprints and Olympic races 3-5 minutes ahead of the people who finish on the podium. I have not seen that happen very often. Yes, you see the competitive swimmers come out of the water first, but not be a large margin ahead of the top 3 race finishers. They are faster, yes, but I would bnot say significantly faster than the top triathletes.[/quot
This is an odd comment. 3- 5 minutes is a huge difference over a 8-18 minute long race. What is more, is that a “good triathlon swimmer” is usually an ex-swimmer who is now a “triathlete.” It is rare that a competitive swimmer with no “Tri” aspirarations would enter into a triathlon at all.
I am a age group triathletes with a swim back ground. I am always one of the top swimmers in every triathlon. But I AM a lot SLOWER swimmer now than I was when I was a competitive swimmer. When I was a swimmer I could have swum:
30 x 100s on 1:05 averaging .55 pace.
I could now swim:
30 x 100s on 1:25 averaging 1:10
(Granted I an also 20 years older now).
Who comes out of the water with or in front of me in triathlons:
A) Other triathles with swim back grounds
B) Pro triathletes without swim backgrounds but who can now swim well
C) Masters Swimmers
I have not yet had to swim against a “competitive swimmer.” The result would be embarrassing (at least until the bike).
Do my competitors who are weaker swimmers often catch me on the run? Yes- otherwise they wouldn’t be competitors. They would just be fast runners that need to work on their swim.
. I still tense up and let water up my nose if I flip though.
For the first half of the flip turn as you rotate upside down (basically until you’re ready to push off), hum gently so that air is trickling out of your nose. If air is trickling out, water can’t get in. Don’t breathe out hard though at this point, b/c you still need air in your lungs for the push off, glide and any dolphin kicks you can manage (and even better two strokes) before you breathe. Alternatively, wear a nose clip, at least while you’re learning.
The good thing about swimming is that we all can get better… A lot better.
The bad news is that most of us have to work, do stuff for our family, run and bike.
I am sorry to say this but:
A “swimmers” is someone who is fast enough to make the senior squad of an average year round age group swim team. A “slow swimmer” is someone who barely makes it.
Examine the requirements of these teams.
They might be as easy as:
State qualifying times in 2 events for 13&14.
The ability to swim 20 x 100 yards on 1:20, averaging 1:05 pace.
But might be a lot harder also.
This is a ridiculously high standard for most triathletes. Still, can you be a “swimmer” if you belong in the 10-13 year old practice, or worse yet with the 8 and unders?
Personally I claim to be an ex-swimmer, a triathlete, a masters swimmer. That sounds better than a “slow swimmer” anyway.
I believe the most objective definition of a “relatively slow swimmer” might be the USA Swimming Age Group Motivational Standards. The lowest level is a “Class B” swimmer and for 18 yr old boys, the 2013-2016 standards are 6:10 for the 500, 12:54 for the 1000, and 21:31 for the 1650 free. I think the Class B swimmer might be considered the minimum entry level for an 18 yo boy to swim on a year-round USA Swimming club. These times might also serve as goal times for triathletes trying to earn “real swimmer” status, as they are challenging for most tri guys but, with enough work, prob achievable by quite a few guys, but never more than maybe 10-20% since many people seem to have very little swimming aptitude, and/or they don’t have the desire to become a reasonably good swimmer.