How do you space out your training sessions?

Triathlon Forum
1

Hi all,

TL;DR version of my inquiry: how do you space out your training sessions during the day? Do you try to stack them in the morning (e.g., swim then bike) or do you break them up across the day (bike in the am, swim after work, etc.)?

Longer version: I’ve always been told (but don’t actually remember the source) that to maximize the benefits of each session there should be at least a four hour “break” between session A and session B. So, if you swim from 7 am to 8 am, you shouldn’t run any sooner than noon. Which, fine – if you can break your day up like that, great! But I (and I suspect a lot of other people) can’t; so, it’s actually more convenient for me to stack sessions due to work/family/limited pool hours/general life stuff in the morning. But now I’m wondering if I am completely undermining my training by, say, running at 10 am and then going to Masters at 11:30*?

How do you all do it? If you have work/family obligations and can’t spread out your training throughout the day, does chaining your sessions work for you? If you do break up your sessions by am, noon-ish, and/or pm, how do you make that work? What creative solutions or innovative suggestions are out there besides “get up at 4 am and do it all then”**?

Additionally, is the four hour break “rule” real or is it actually OK to kinda clump your sessions together? Or do I really need to prioritize getting several hours between sessions in an average day?

Thanks in advance for your input or insight and I hope everyone is having an excellent Friday!

  • This is objectively a terrible time. Unfortunately the one pool I have consistent access to doesn’t even open until 11 am so there’s not an earlier time I could swim, and due to my work schedule I can’t nope out for an hour or two in the late afternoon, due to family stuff I can’t swim at 5, etc.

** Trust me: if I could just get up at 4 and do it then, I would. But I can’t. Thank you, next?

2

Hi all,

TL;DR version of my inquiry: how do you space out your training sessions during the day? Do you try to stack them in the morning…or do you break them up across the day

Longer version: I’ve always been told (but don’t actually remember the source) that to maximize the benefits of each session there should be at least a four hour “break” between session A and session B. So, if you swim from 7 am to 8 am, you shouldn’t run any sooner than noon. Which, fine – if you can break your day up like that, great! …

Additionally, is the four hour break “rule” real or is it actually OK to kinda clump your sessions together? Or do I really need to prioritize getting several hours between sessions in an average day?

** Trust me: if I could just get up at 4 and do it then, I would. But I can’t. Thank you, next?

stacking/clumping going back to back is fine. There might be some fueling issues here and there if you’re not thoughtful about that.

I’d put the hard(er)(est) session first and then the next session be easy. Ie interval run in the morning then an easy ride after. Or a run then an interval bike since it’s easier to start the recovery process on the bike than while running. You can eat & drink while your just riding at the back end of the ride where you can’t really do that running.

Others may prefer bike then run. I’m just not a fan for my athletes for normal long(er) training sessions since the recovery costs seem to be higher for B/R than R/B. 10-20 min run after the bike fine, 45-75 often? Not for my athletes. YMMV

I’ve never heard of that 4h rule. Doesn’t make sense when you’re training for an IM and session duration is something you want.

fwiw when I was racing my fastest, sub 4:15 consistently for 70.3, I struggled with insomnia. I often just slept in and did my run ~ 4 or 4;30 in the afternoon then was in the pool for masters at 6. I never thought it personally impacted me. Plus it often allowed me to get more than 5-6h of sleep.

Hope that helps, lmk if any more questions

3

I find I do the 4hr break by necessity and not by design. Workout pre-work (usually a trainer ride, because young kids and all and it’s hard to fit in ride volume at lunch) and then run/swim at lunch. Evenings I try keep open for family time. If I could, I would likely move the 2nd workout closer since I sometimes find fueling the 2nd workout hard and that if my 2nd workout is 9 or 10 am instead of noon, it seems to go better.

4

You hear the 4 hour rule referenced when pure runners do doubles – you should space out your runs at least 4 hours apart to allow for proper recovery. Think that makes sense for triathlon if you’re able to do it. I just watched an ITU athlete to a workout video on YouTube & they said they rarely do brick sessions, meaning that they space out their training sessions. I found that pretty surprising but they’re a full time pro & have the time. I think it’s interesting that they could stack their training or spread it out and choose the latter. I would have thought an ITU type would do more brick sessions. I stack my sessions in the morning for the most part and just make sure to fuel throughout the sessions. Seems to be working out fine.

5

I run first, when my legs are fresh, then ride my bike, every morning. On M/W/F I get off the bike, eat, and head for the gym, where I lift weights and swim. Time between workouts is whatever it takes to eat, hydrate, and use the bathroom. I’m retired, so I get up in the morning and get my workouts done. The quicker I get them knocked out, the quicker I can become a normal person for the rest of the day.

6

stack 'em in the morning because it’s what’s best for the rest of my life
.

7

stack 'em in the morning because it’s what’s best for the rest of my life

Same.

8

Can I partially steal this thread to ask a more specific question: is there any purpose in bricks?

All my research shows that the best possible run fitness will come from fresh legs. Why would runs purposely be scheduled after a hard bike ride? As someone injury prone, I’m trending towards never doing a typical brick to try and maximize having fresh legs for running.

I’ve never felt any issues running off the bike so don’t understand why I need to train that. I have extra time in the day so I’ll maybe schedule multiple workouts a day, but then this thread becomes relevant. And for that, usually my swim comes first because I swim at lunch and then whatever my workout is that’s scheduled after work. I usually don’t schedule 3 a days at the moment.

9

A couple of bongs just before each training session
.

10

Can I partially steal this thread to ask a more specific question: is there any purpose in bricks?

the only real purpose, well there are a few. The main real purpose people want to believe they get from bricks is learning to run on tired legs. I give you this classic thread

Another purpose they serve is to increase recovery time, increase fatigue and decrease the amount of time you spend changing clothes, showering, etc

Finally they really are beneficial to do once in a bit for 2 reasons.

The first is there has been show to be some neurological difference between running off the bike and when you run before riding. Now if you never do any bricks that difference reverts to normal neural patterning usually in < 3 minutes. If you do bricks, and the best way to train yourself to go at top speed right out of T2 is do repeated sessions of really hard yet short bikes and a short but fast run over and over. Not the classic ride for hours then run for however long.

When you think about this you realize that being able to revert to normal neurological function faster is best for the draft legal crowd where having a bad first 800 can take you out of a medal or money. It’s least applicable to IM since having your first mile be your fastest mile probably isn’t the best race day strategy.

The second and personally I think more beneficial or dare I say controversial thing is to get an idea of what it feels like and how your nutrition is working for those long sessions. Yet I rarely see people doing 7h bike/run workouts. Are they really testing it out on a 4h bike 1h run?

I do think having some really long 6-8h training sessions is a great idea, I just don’t think doing them B/R is a great idea.

It’s not necessarily the first 5 miles of the IM run where you will fall apart due to bad nutrition but the last 60+% of the run where people struggle. I just don’t know a lot of people who have done those IM length rides then run 30k off the bike to see how that goes.

At least at the top end of the sport I don’t know a lot of people doing that. But then I’m old and I don’t hang out with or homestay a lot of dudes still winning and placing at IMs, including Kona, anymore. Maybe the Lionels, Sams, Bens and others are doing that.

Anyway I’m sure that you will have some that disagree with some points above and I think it’s worth revisiting this from time to time.

11

I used to do early morning run/swim or bike/swim combo’s for OLY or HIM training, sometimes (closer to race day) it would be a swim in morning, bike/run brick in the afternoon, but then a day off after that. And, lucky for me I could take a short nap in the day if I needed to: 20’-40’ with the alarm on to wake me, meant I was ready to wrestle with the rest of the day and be able to sleep at night. Now that I’m in mid 60’s, I may do 2 workouts a day still, but if it’s a hard bike or run (hills or intervals on either) I will take a rest day from bike or run (swim or do strength instead) the next day. This allows for good recovery. And I feel ready to work hard for the next workout. It means an ever-changing weekly training schedule, less training, but fewer injuries and loving what I’m doing!

12

Same! I like being “normal” :slight_smile:

13

stacking/clumping going back to back is fine. There might be some fueling issues here and there if you’re not thoughtful about that.

I’d put the hard(er)(est) session first and then the next session be easy. Ie interval run in the morning then an easy ride after. Or a run then an interval bike since it’s easier to start the recovery process on the bike than while running. You can eat & drink while your just riding at the back end of the ride where you can’t really do that running.

Others may prefer bike then run. I’m just not a fan for my athletes for normal long(er) training sessions since the recovery costs seem to be higher for B/R than R/B. 10-20 min run after the bike fine, 45-75 often? Not for my athletes. YMMV

I’ve never heard of that 4h rule. Doesn’t make sense when you’re training for an IM and session duration is something you want.

This is really so helpful and exactly what I was hoping to hear! I can totally make space for an “early-to-midmorning run/fuel-hydrate/bike”-type of session, which sounds a lot less complicated than trying to figure out how to balance the two across a busy day.

Thanks so much for this.

14

I find I do the 4hr break by necessity and not by design. Workout pre-work (usually a trainer ride, because young kids and all and it’s hard to fit in ride volume at lunch) and then run/swim at lunch. Evenings I try keep open for family time. If I could, I would likely move the 2nd workout closer since I sometimes find fueling the 2nd workout hard and that if my 2nd workout is 9 or 10 am instead of noon, it seems to go better.

This is really helpful to hear, thanks! I can definitely do a morning/lunch split, but sometimes – depending on the day and the session – it’s actually easier to do a 9:30 trainer ride and then a swim at 11:30 than to wake everybody up by riding the trainer in the living room at 5 am (small house, no garage, crazy city where riding outside on weekday mornings is to court disaster, etc.). Thanks for your input!

15

You hear the 4 hour rule referenced when pure runners do doubles – you should space out your runs at least 4 hours apart to allow for proper recovery.

Ah – you’re probably right that that’s where I’ve heard it, not necessarily re: triathlon.

I just watched an ITU athlete to a workout video on YouTube & they said they rarely do brick sessions, meaning that they space out their training sessions. I found that pretty surprising but they’re a full time pro & have the time. I think it’s interesting that they could stack their training or spread it out and choose the latter.

What made me start to question the 4 hour rule was watching LCB & Reece’s “what we do in a day” video a few months ago; they swim, fuel/hydrate, then go to the track. I wasn’t sure if this was due to covid restrictions (they filmed it a year or two ago) or if stacking sessions that way was effective. Probably it’s both, but this is still helpful to hear.

Thanks for your help!

16

stack 'em in the morning because it’s what’s best for the rest of my life

Same.

Yeah, if I could be done with all sessions before 9 am that would be a mental load off. I teach at a university and my classes/meetings are generally all in the afternoon, and I don’t want to have to think about how to squeeze in that run or swim post-teaching and pre-evening stuff. I’m glad to hear this works for so many people – thanks!

17

Rule #1 for me is to get the training done. If you need to clump together to fit your life schedule then do that.

Personally, I do an AM session before work and a PM session after work. I like to keep the theme of the day for both workouts. Example: morning swim with tempo/70.3 race pace reps, afternoon ride with 70.3 intervals. Then the next day might be easy/recovery so I keep the run and bike in zone 2. I’ll throw in weight training 1-2 times per week immediately following a run.

That’s what works for me. Find what works best for you and your body. Everybody is different.

18

Hi all,

How do you all do it?

Monday - Friday I am on the bike trainer or outside run from 5:45-6:45 AM. I swim or do strength training for 30 minutes from 12:15-12:45 PM. On Saturdays I do a 90-180 minute long run or long ride starting at 5:45 AM. I rest on Sundays.

That is a little over simplified. I do recovery runs at noon sometimes on days I am not swimming, and some times I am up before 5:00 AM on weekdays to do a long run (up to 2-1/2 hours) or 90 long ride on the trainer. I also sometime will do a longer swim at 5:45AM in the morning, do a track workout in the evening, or back when I lived near open water even a OWS in the evening.

Most weeks is it just hour in the morning, 30 minutes at lunch, and 90-180 minutes on Saturday morning.

I haven’t done any full Iron distance races. I tried some training plans for full iron races though when I didn’t have anything to train for during Covid cancelations and was doing a 4-hour bike brick every Saturday and hour+ swim sessions twice a week in the morning on weekdays so everything else got shuffled around.

19

Only one workout a day in the off season. M/W/F are typically swim days, though in the summer this is more flexible since i can walk down to the lake in front of our cottage and OWS at my convenience or as dictated by the weather. As the season ramps up, swim days become two workout days. These workouts are never back-to-back as i will have a nice relaxing breakfast while rolling and/or stretching in front of the TV with whatever sport is on (tennis preferred).

Whatever wasn’t done on a swim day will be done the next day. At least once a week i will adjust to do a bike/run brick, although i consider this less critical if my A race is an IM.

This past winter i switched it up - headed to the gym exclusively (no aerobic workouts) as i’m 60 now and i wanted to address possible muscle loss (i have no desire to integrate strength training during the season). Very satisfying result! Could be a fluke, but my times were as good as 15 years ago.

I should probably mention that i am recently retired and have the luxury of prioritizing training as i always wished i could. I’m also charmed in that i am married to a very supportive wife.

20

stack 'em in the morning because it’s what’s best for the rest of my life

Same.

Yeah, if I could be done with all sessions before 9 am that would be a mental load off. I teach at a university and my classes/meetings are generally all in the afternoon, and I don’t want to have to think about how to squeeze in that run or swim post-teaching and pre-evening stuff. I’m glad to hear this works for so many people – thanks!

I prefer training in the afternoon when I been awake for a few hours. I stack my workouts back to back to back: swim, run, strength, then 2nd run. I like to swim first when I’m relatively fresh, then run and strength. I run mostly on the treadmill at the gym so I can easily do 2-4 mi on the TM, then do some pullups, dips, situps, etc, then jump back on the TM for another 2-4 mi. I find it much more time-efficient to stack my workouts due to less time for clothing changes, showers, etc. :slight_smile: