Ok, go easy on me. I know a lot of you guys take your training and training science very seriously. I’m more of a just for fun and staying fit type.
When running over the summer I noticed (due Garmin upgrade) that I always seemed to be in Zone 4. I took 2 months off running November/December and now I’m getting back into it this month.
Today I decided to try and keep my heart rate low and run slow. Set the treadmill to 9kph, which felt easy. Knew I wouldn’t be able to hit Zone 2 but was hopeful for Zone 3. No chance, Zone 4 again.
I can’t go slower. If I go slower I’ll be doing some sort of weird speed walking. How do I need to train to get my heart rate down? Any good training plans for this?
Info: Female, 43, according to Garmin HRmax 189, currently running 3 x 5K per week treadmill.
Give your Hr max id be surprised that you are at 80-90% hr. Sometimes the build in optical HR is inaccurate. Mine definitely was so I now use accessory HR band. Tickr fit from wahoo.
If it’s accurate then you just have to be patient. The speed will go up but takes a while. Most people are too impatient to train this way. When I first started I was running 10-1030s in zone 2. Now it’s ~ 8:40-8:50. Took a few years. And remember not all the runs will be at zone 2 so you do get some speed.
Look at your HR at what is the fastest pace you can say pledge of allegiance with out skipping words and that is your zone 2. Ignore what apps tell you
Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary, Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore, While I nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping, As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door. “ “'Tis some visitor,” I muttered, “tapping at my chamber door— Only this, and nothing more.”
Your zones do not look right for a MAXHR of 189. What method are you using to set your zones? That kinds looks like heart rate reserve. Do you have a recent 5km or 10km race? I prefer the threshold method using avg 10km race heart rate. As a 56 to male with a max of 184, my 10km threshold is 174. Which puts my mid z2 at 152. So, I don’t think your zones are correct… You aren’t running in zone 4.
That said… What stick out to me from your hr graph is that it is constantly increasing until you stop. That’s indicating that you are running too hard. You are probably in z3. So, you do need to slow down until you can see a flat hr graph after about the 10min mark.
Setting aside having well defined zones, Phil Maffettone or 80/20 would probably say that you’re running too hard and that you should walk or walk-run to make sure you stay in the zone.
Whatever it takes to stay in the zone until your aerobic system has developed enough.
But, that’s exactly the point. She’s struggling to stay in a poorly defined heart rate zone. She needs a reference for what easy running is supposed to be… And has been trying to use heart rate. To do that, she needs decent zones.
But, those default. Garmin zones are way too low, and way too big. That zone4.goes from 147 to 169 bpm. For me (with a similar mhr) that covers all of z2, z3, and part of z4.
Yes and both things (poorly defined zones and running too fast) could be true at the same time.
And Phil Maffettone in particular forces people into being particularly conservative with his formulas especially when getting back into training after a break or injury.
My point is you gave no actionable advise to aid her in learning what the right zone is.
The maf formula is crap for most everyone coming to Slowtwitch. Ie 180 - age. Frankly, I’m not a fan of the maffetone method. It puts most everyone way down in low zone1. It’s unnecessarily conservative for anyone except the newest of new.
The OP is running to fast… I said that above. Her heart rate is increasing for the entire 30 minutes, instead of plateauing around the 8-10 minute mark and stay there for the remainder.
I expect she needs to slow down by 40s/km. Targeting a heart rate around 154. But, that’s presuming she has a 5k/10k heart rate that’s around 178 or so. I was hoping she’d reply with one, to be a little more specific. Something in the low 150s should be fine. But, the key is that her heart rate during the last 5 minutes should still be the same as the first 5 minutes after a 10m warmup.
I’m not sure why you’re making it sound adversative while also agreeing.
The OP has asked for training plans and how people do this kind of training. I’ve mentioned two methods that focus on zone 2 or similar and they hadn’t been mentioned yet on this thread.
They both have books that include plenty of training plans. They have information available for free on their website and plans that can be purchased. They both have ways to set training zones and calculators that suit the particular style that was mentioned (“I’m more of a just for fun and staying fit type.”).
I haven’t mentioned specific formulas because it’s a rabbit hole with the little data available in this case.
Also, the OP said “I can’t go slower”. Yes she can. Nobody should be afraid of mixing walking with running. It’s always important to point this out.
Personally, I always mix walking with running when I get back into running after a break.
And I run decently fast for a triathlete (I don’t say it to brag, and I know there’s plenty of more experienced or faster triathletes. I say it because I believe it reinforces the point).
Maybe the best piece of advice here is that to be sure you’re in zone 2 you need to be able to sustain a conversation while running.
Or lookup one of the RPE scales. No math needed for those.
I love their watches and computers, but their algorithm for zones seems so bad. They measure what feels like a viable max heart rate, and then seem to use some other number to calculate zones.
If you’re using Garmin’s defaults, do a quick check in your User Settings, to see if your age, birthday are correct.
The Garmin’s default for zone 5 is 90% of HR Max. If your Zone 5 starts at169 bpm it would be using a max of 187.7 bpm (close enough to the 189 you said). However, that’s closer to a max HR of a 31 year old, not your age of 43.
Various formulas for Max HR, for a 43F:
Traditional formula: 220 - 43 = 177
Healthy adults: 208 - (age * 0.7) = 174.89
Healthy women over thirty: 206 - (43*0.88) = 168.16
All of which would still put your zone 5 starting at about 151bpm.
The workout you posted will still show as being in zone 5, but the zone values would be more accurate.
Garmins allow you to override defaults and set your own customized zones too.
Garmin will measure mhr across activities. If she’s been working.out for months her 189 should be a measured value, not an age based formula.
Those population norm formulas are meaningless. For example, I’m 56. My measured MAXHR is 183 this year…and I haven’t done any all out efforts that I would expect to push my max. I saw 187 during hill repeats last year. That’s a 33 year old according to those norms. When I was 33 my mhr was well over 200.
Since she is holding near 160 for 30 minutes amd claiming she can’t go slower, her max is likely close to that 189 value. She’s probably running in low z3, as defined by LTHR based zones. That’s a pace that “feels” good and productive for short workouts.
I wasn’t really meaning to sound adversarial. But, as stated I’m not a fan or either maf or 80/20 for various reasons. BarryPs plan is superior to both and more pragmatic, as plans go.
But the answer to why she’s in zone4 has nothing to do with any plan. Simply, her watch is setup wrong. Shes not training in z4.
Well, if the OP has access to physiological testing, to determine her specific max hr, and other vitals – then by all means using customized values could work.
The other alternative is use RPEs, note the HRs at various levels and replace Garmin’s defaults with those.
Garmin recalculated my HRmax after an interval session to 189.
If we lower my HRmax I’m in even bigger trouble Maybe it should be higher?
I don’t have any info from a recent race/event, only training. This is from a recent fast (for me at the moment) 5K. Which is slightly absurd… but does show my HRmax is not fictious - although now slightly concerned I might die.
ALSO, only just crossed my mind. I live and train at altitude (1500 metres) not sure how that impacts the situation, obviously makes things harder than sea level, but not sure it would change zones.
