Currently, when I run, my HR will slowly climb until I get into Z4 or Z5. That’s doing what feels like a comfortable pace for me over a period of a half hour or longer.
My question is “what training should I use so that my HR stays in Z3 or lower”? Run slower is not an answer as I would have to resort to a run / walk session. I’m wondering whether I should go to short runs at a faster pace and push my HR higher or go for longer runs (which I suppose would also push my HR up). Or, should I do 200m sprints or push well into Z5 by doing stairs?
HR monitors (all 3), have used two different belts so I figure those are accurate. HR zones determined using Coogan (sp?) methodology. Max HR found through a combination of FTP testing on the bike and running. If anything, the max I can reach is higher than what I use for setting zones. Min HR is within a couple bpm so that should be good. I drop the HR zone on the bike by about 5 bpm however, it is run HR that I’m concerned about.
Yes, run slower or run / walk will keep my HR lower but what training methodology can I employ that, over time, will result in a lower average HR for a given speed and thus allow me to run at a decent pace but keep my HR in Z2 / Z3? High volume? Sprints? High HR runs, slow steady? Long runs? Daily running but shorter distances (how short and what effort)?
People make progress with low heart rate training even if it means walking sometimes. But you have to do a LOT of running for it to work.
Which, is the answer either way. Run more.
Currently, when I run, my HR will slowly climb until I get into Z4 or Z5. That’s doing what feels like a comfortable pace for me over a period of a half hour or longer.
My question is “what training should I use so that my HR stays in Z3 or lower”? Run slower is not an answer as I would have to resort to a run / walk session. I’m wondering whether I should go to short runs at a faster pace and push my HR higher or go for longer runs (which I suppose would also push my HR up). Or, should I do 200m sprints or push well into Z5 by doing stairs?
You just have to run MORE, which almost certainly means not running harder. (You won’t be able to significantly increase both volume AND intensity at the same time if you’re doing it right.)
The volume thing really works. Happens to most people when they train for marathons. (Not saying you should do that.) Running a lot of miles increases your run-specific endurance and you’ll go faster speeds for much less effort.
Currently, when I run, my HR will slowly climb until I get into Z4 or Z5. That’s doing what feels like a comfortable pace for me over a period of a half hour or longer.
My question is “what training should I use so that my HR stays in Z3 or lower”? Run slower is not an answer as I would have to resort to a run / walk session. I’m wondering whether I should go to short runs at a faster pace and push my HR higher or go for longer runs (which I suppose would also push my HR up). Or, should I do 200m sprints or push well into Z5 by doing stairs?
For about 6 months in late 2010/early 2011 I ran using the Maffetone method. The pros and cons of that methodology have been discussed…a lot…on this forum but I can give you my two cents:
My HR cap for ALL running was 155 (if I remember correctly this is established using your age/injury history)
For the first 2-3 weeks this meant I walked up some hills.
You do a test (can’t remember the specifics) every couple of weeks to see what your “pace” is and when I first started my HR cap pace was ~8:30 and ~7:30ish by the end
So, taken anecdotally, the Maffetone method worked. Was it because I used a HR cap? Was it because I simply got fitter through more frequent running and more running volume? Or some other reason/s?
Currently, when I run, my HR will slowly climb until I get into Z4 or Z5. That’s doing what** feels like a comfortable pace** for me over a period of a half hour or longer. (emphasis mine)
If your watch says Z5, and you can comfortably hold that for 30 minutes…your zones are not right.
It sounds like you put the Coggan zones (1-7) into the garmin profile (1-5). Therefore, your Coggan Z5 is not all out. Although, this still sounds like your zones are off:
Strong to severe sensations of leg effort/fatigue, such that completion of more than 30-40 min total training time is difficult at best. Conversation not possible due to often ‘ragged’ breathing. from: http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-training-levels
Could you post more about how exactly you established those zones (a watch file would help!) and what exactly you have your zones at now?
I think your zones are way off and/or you HRM has some accuracy issues. Z4 is threshold, so you should be struggling to hold a conversation. Zone 5 is fast, like almost 5k pace, you be breathing fairly hard at that point. You breathing rate should be a clear indicator.
This is also why I tend to prefer pace running, the same was I prefer using power on a bike. Although up hills you have to watch you HR and pay attention to your RPE.
If my workout calls for an easy run and I get to a steep, I’ll walk it. Going harder than planned, just compromises the quality of my next run, bike, etc and is potentially setting your up for injury depending on how hard your pushing your limits in training load.
In the beginning of my IM training last year I did a HR control set on the track where I would run a mind-numbing 5-6mi on the track (to remove terrain from the equation) and try to keep my HR at 150bpm. This meant setting HR alerts and checking watch every 200m. I would track mile time and avg hr per mile. Did this from Jan-April and saw my mile times drop substantially (~20s/mi) given the same HR.
Bottom line, run more and run slower. There’s no magic formula.
Usually every season I start training I get pissed because I can’t bring my heart rate down where I know it was at the end of the previous season. After about 8 weeks of training suddenly I can pound the pedals on my bike and it is 15-20 bpm lower them it was when starting out. Same thing for running just not as big of a drop. This literally just happened for me last weekend and has continued this week so I know I am finally getting there. So like everyone else is saying just keep training harder and longer and it should come down.
I would say remember your HR right now with the pace you are going and as you build up the intensity over several weeks go back to that pace for a run and compare your HR again. You might be surprised
No, I can’t hold my pace by the time I hit Z5. Maybe a few minutes but that is at the end if my run. And, Z4 is not comfortable, it is my HTFU zone. Z3 feels comfortable with regular breathing.
Running slow, I’ll be in Z3 within 10 minutes and into Z4 within 15 to 20 minutes. By slow, I mean about 7:00/KM. That’s about an 11:17 / mile pace. I can run faster but then my HR climbs faster. I’ll typically run about a 6:30 or so if I just go out for a 5 Km run.
To stay below Z4 I have to employ a run / walk strategy. To stay below Z3, mostly walk.
The reason I’m linking HR and RPE is partially because I am currently being medicated with both B/P meds and Beta Blockers. Not sure what the B/P meds do my HR but the Beta Blockers lower it, especially the Max and make it harder to elevate (My RPE goes up more than it used to). In my discussions with my Cardiologist, lower HR is better so I’d like to be able to run with a lower HR but still run. The good news is that over the past couple of years of becoming active, my results have improved (based upon Treadmill tests and scanning ejection fractions (or something along those lines))
The more I train, the more efficient my heart should become, resulting in a lower HR for a given pace. And I’m wondering whether it matters how I train or is it “just time and distance”. And, it is a slow Friday for me :).
I lived almost entirely off high intensity intervals for over a decade. When I first started getting into running and endurance stuff, I could sustain a pretty high HR for a long time, but any sort of activity would cause my HR to spike well over 150bpm. I’d have to run/walk or go laboriously slow to keep my HR in the 140-150 range. It was frustrating, and I simply refused to do it for years. I made gains, but progress wasn’t steady.
When I got injured in Feb of 2013 (ice climbing fall), I decided that when I came back, I’d train myself up the right way. After all, I’d have to go slow anyway. I often kick myself for not doing it sooner. Slowly but surely my running efficiency went up. Running speeds that had me over LT are now effortless recovery speeds. It takes time, but it’s worth it. Beating the ego down and actually walking or going ridiculously slow was the hardest part for me.
If your zones are correct, what you’re seeing means your aerobic engine needs serious work. As much as if will drive you nuts, you need to slow down and even walk if necessary. Run slower, increase your distance gradually. The Barry P plan works…try it.
It would be helpful to know what kind of mileage you’re running now (or before).
If you’ve never run over 20miles in a week regularly, for example, it would perfectly explain your spiking HR with longer efforts (and high HR for even slower runs.)
Those 10min/miles can actually feel like solid training when you’re running on dead legs from the volume buildup.
Currently, when I run, my HR will slowly climb until I get into Z4 or Z5. That’s doing what feels like a comfortable pace for me over a period of a half hour or longer.
My question is “what training should I use so that my HR stays in Z3 or lower”? Run slower is not an answer as I would have to resort to a run / walk session. I’m wondering whether I should go to short runs at a faster pace and push my HR higher or go for longer runs (which I suppose would also push my HR up). Or, should I do 200m sprints or push well into Z5 by doing stairs?
Is this a change for you? Were your HRs lower in the past? Are you new to running? coming off injury, etc? Coming off rest? My advice is to walk. Walk at Z3 until you can run at 7:00/km at Z2ish. I don’t watch my HR running but I do in cycling (and the engine is the same) and I have seen my HR dramatically decrease over the past few years. I bet if i had worn a HRM back when I was just walking I would have seen teh same with running. Also, are you sick? What is your recovery like? Does your HR drop like a stone when you back off the pace? Are you sick/getting sick? I’ve been in bed for a couple days but pretty much predicted it as my last ride my HR was quite high. I felt fine but it was weird my HR was so high. Next day I was in bed with sickness.
