Ok, so I know this has been asked 1000 times before…please bare with me
I tried out a new TT bike earlier this year and I just could not get on with it. It was unstable and I had no confidence on it thus I was not going to be faster. I also dreaded the thought of bringing it out for a ride, so in the end I sold it and moved on.
Now, I am back on the market for 2022 and I need something for triathlons both short and long distance. Main goal this year is a full IM which is actually quite hilly and technical so I am looking towards an Aero Road bike.
I like the look of the Giant Propel 2022 with clip-on aero bars. See Kristian Blumenfeld setup for Tokyo
This bike just came out today and is the closest looking road bike to a TT bike I’ve seen. That said the geometry is still more upright than a TT bike.
You’d probably have to get different handlebars if you wanted to clip on aerobars. Also my understanding is that you will not get better handling on a road bike with clip-ons vs a TT bike. I’m new to the sport and have only ridden my road bike with clip-on aerobars but I look forward to getting a Tri/TT bike sometime in the next year.
the key difference between an aero road bike and a TT bike is the seat tube angle. Thus, it is important in looking at an aero road bike to see if you can put a seat post with a different offset to bring the seat more forward.
The short answer is you’re going to be slower, at least 1 mph and probably 2+. Only you can decide what that’s worth to you.
Couple of thoughts to consider. I don’t see how a road bike with aero bars, while you’re in the aero bars, is going to feel any better than a TT bike in aero.
On a road bike with aero bars, you’ll have to take your arm out of aero to shift gears (unless this new road bike has electronic shifters on the aero bars). This will lead to a moment of potential instability and losing some aero. And you may not shift as often because you don’t want to get out of aero, which isn’t good for performance.
I have a Felt that is an aero road bike that I put aerobars on, and a QR TT bike. I rode the Felt for 3 years that way, including 2 Ironmans and several half Ironmans. I can say from my own experience that riding the TT bike is a significant difference over the road bike - not just in speed gains, but in overall comfort, power, and how my legs feel coming off the bike in to the run.
The aero road bike will mimic the set up of the TT bike, allowing you to drop down into the aero bars, but the overall geometry is so different between the two that it’s not going to end up giving you the overall benefit you want.
You have to have a great fit on the TT bike. Before I was fit to mine, I was just riding it around my neighborhood, and felt much like you - unstable, afraid to push it at all, no speed gains. Once I got that fit, immediate difference.
Even on a hilly and technical IM course, I would still chose my TT bike over my road bike.
Cona4,
I feel like there are perhaps 3 elements to this consideration…
road bike in a wind tunnel vs tri bike in a wind tunnel = tri bike would be expected to have less drag but there are some pretty slippery lookin’ road bikes now-a-days. So let’s call it a wash. It’s moot anyway because bikes can’t ghost ride a course. So that leads us to…
the human body positioned well on a road bike vs human body positioned well on a tri bike = no contest, the tri bike is faster with a body on it.
a skilled rider who is confident on a road bike vs a rider unused to the tri position and how it handles and deep wheels and lots of surface area catching wind and moving around on a tri bike = hmmm… closer maybe, but I bit the tri bike is still faster.
I don’t care how hilly or technical any IM course is… 180k/112mi on tri bike piloted by even a moderately competent rider (I think that describes 80% of triathletes) is faster than a road bike over that distance. You know how much a 180k in all IM course is straight and flat - the majority.
Here’s my recommendation get PREFIT. Get fit BEFORE you buy your tri bike. Take time research your fitter - they must be educated in the tri position. They must be experienced in fitting triathletes. They MUST have a dynamic fit bike for this process - cannot be done without it (get back to me with where you live, if I have a fitter in your area I’ll make the recommendation). Travel if you must to that fitter. Go through the fit process and leave there with 3 things: 1) your Pad Y and Pad X, 2) a list of bikes that will meet your Pad Y/X with ease, and 3) all your fit coordinates (seat height, set back, cockpit distance, pad width, extension length, tilt, etc. etc). Then buy any of the bikes that fit you - personally I think the criteria fit are groupo and color - but you can decide on what matters to you - as long as they fit with ease. Then, when the bike arrives, either you or you have someone set up the bike in the exact coordinates that the fitter prescribed - if that means the mechanic has to call the fitter to get explanations as to who they got to a number - have it done. Then, one last step: master this bike! Let it become an extension of your body. Find a local cycling coach and pay them for a 2 hour private in a parking lot so they can set up a course to teach you bike handling skills. Then ride it often (off the trainer is a must) so that you know how it responses moving in and out of aero, downhill with a cross wind, in a tail wind, when a truck goes blowing by out, etc. etc.
All of this sounds expensive and a bit of a hassle BUT… when you go 45min faster on the bike at your Ironman and then 15min faster on the run… consider what you’d pay to be an hour faster in a race. Also, keep in mind that you’ll likely ride this bike for the next 10 years, in perhaps 50+ races, and countless training miles.
Do it right from the beginning and benefit for ages.
Hi there! I agree with a lot of the comments above. I rode my aero bike during IM Whistler before the pandemic (because I thought it would be faster and more comfortable given how much climbing is involved in the Whistler course), and in the end I wish I would have had a TT bike. I was really hurting when I got off my aero bike and the run was a real chore - haha. I recently did IM Wisconsin on my TT bike and had a completely different experience and was quite a bit faster both on and after the bike (although IM Wisconsin doesn’t have as much climbing as Whistler, which probably explains a lot of the time difference). Of course, I have seen plenty of folks be successful on road bikes (even without aerobars), so I think it all comes down to a matter of preference and whether you think a TT bike will make you more competitive (if that is your ultimate goal).
How high is your priority for going fast in a triathlon relative to road bike riding?Do you have a serviceable road bike already?
If you already have a road bike, I would get a TT bike. No point in duplicating existing equipment if you want to optimize for triathlon riding.
If you do not have a road bike, and you want the flexibility to do road rides, then get a good aero road bike and set it up with extensions. Then get a TT bike someday.
TT bikes are better in many ways, beyond speed, for triathlon riding. The BTA water bottle, bar-end shifting, superior position that saves your legs for the run, and just faster because of both the frame design and more aero position achievable.
Stability and confidence comes very quickly for most riders.
on fast rides i am typically about 1.5mph slower on my round-tubed road bike than my TT bike for the same power. I’d hope to get some of that back by switching to an aero road bike - but haven’t tried one. Also, i typically ride my TT bike with a 60 front whereas the road bike normally has a 40…so going to a 60 for both would narrow the gap a little bit more.
Personally i am more comfortable on my road bike but i understand what others have said about how comfortable the TT bike is after getting your position dialed. i just haven’t invested the time to be able to hold my aggressive position for more than about 30 miles.
Ian and Rick pretty much echo my thoughts. I’m 1.5mph between a road bike and TT bike, but with aero wheels. I’d bet an aero road bike might pick up .5mph of that back, so still 1mph difference. If that’s the difference between 16 and 17mph that’s 25min. You will also have a run difference as your lets will not be as shot, so maybe another 10-15 minutes there or more. It’s a lot of time to give up.
Cona4,
I feel like there are perhaps 3 elements to this consideration…
road bike in a wind tunnel vs tri bike in a wind tunnel = tri bike would be expected to have less drag but there are some pretty slippery lookin’ road bikes now-a-days. So let’s call it a wash. It’s moot anyway because bikes can’t ghost ride a course. So that leads us to…
the human body positioned well on a road bike vs human body positioned well on a tri bike = no contest, the tri bike is faster with a body on it.
a skilled rider who is confident on a road bike vs a rider unused to the tri position and how it handles and deep wheels and lots of surface area catching wind and moving around on a tri bike = hmmm… closer maybe, but I bit the tri bike is still faster.
I don’t care how hilly or technical any IM course is… 180k/112mi on tri bike piloted by even a moderately competent rider (I think that describes 80% of triathletes) is faster than a road bike over that distance. You know how much a 180k in all IM course is straight and flat - the majority.
Here’s my recommendation get PREFIT. Get fit BEFORE you buy your tri bike. Take time research your fitter - they must be educated in the tri position. They must be experienced in fitting triathletes. They MUST have a dynamic fit bike for this process - cannot be done without it (get back to me with where you live, if I have a fitter in your area I’ll make the recommendation). Travel if you must to that fitter. Go through the fit process and leave there with 3 things: 1) your Pad Y and Pad X, 2) a list of bikes that will meet your Pad Y/X with ease, and 3) all your fit coordinates (seat height, set back, cockpit distance, pad width, extension length, tilt, etc. etc). Then buy any of the bikes that fit you - personally I think the criteria fit are groupo and color - but you can decide on what matters to you - as long as they fit with ease. Then, when the bike arrives, either you or you have someone set up the bike in the exact coordinates that the fitter prescribed - if that means the mechanic has to call the fitter to get explanations as to who they got to a number - have it done. Then, one last step: master this bike! Let it become an extension of your body. Find a local cycling coach and pay them for a 2 hour private in a parking lot so they can set up a course to teach you bike handling skills. Then ride it often (off the trainer is a must) so that you know how it responses moving in and out of aero, downhill with a cross wind, in a tail wind, when a truck goes blowing by out, etc. etc.
All of this sounds expensive and a bit of a hassle BUT… when you go 45min faster on the bike at your Ironman and then 15min faster on the run… consider what you’d pay to be an hour faster in a race. Also, keep in mind that you’ll likely ride this bike for the next 10 years, in perhaps 50+ races, and countless training miles.
Do it right from the beginning and benefit for ages.
Ian
This should be a permanent sticky post on the forum front page!!!
Ian and Rick pretty much echo my thoughts. I’m 1.5mph between a road bike and TT bike, but with aero wheels. I’d bet an aero road bike might pick up .5mph of that back, so still 1mph difference. If that’s the difference between 16 and 17mph that’s 25min. You will also have a run difference as your lets will not be as shot, so maybe another 10-15 minutes there or more. It’s a lot of time to give up.
I was 1.5 mph faster when adding clip on bars and an aero helmet on my aero road bike. That was the only change. All at the same power.
I will be a bit of a contrarian and say that the road bike can still work well. I think the deciding factor will be seat setback. If your Tri position has the nose of the saddle directly over the bottom bracket spindle or even in front of it, you will probably be much happier on the TT/Tri bike. The thing is you just don’t see many of the old school 80+ degree seat tube angle bikes anymore and there aren’t many fast people who look like they are running on the bike. If you aren’t one of those people who has the seat slammed all the way forward on the rails or your TT/Tri or road bike, you can probably replicate the position pretty well on a road bike (Tom A was the master of this and had a whickedly fast and clean S5 he used for road and TT).
My suggestion on the aero road bike would be to look for something with some round tubing for the handlebar where it clamps to the stem. Then you can use something like the AeroCoach clip-on aerobar. The bars are super nice and they have BTA options. You might even call them for suggestions.
The aero (flattened) handlebars aren’t compatible with 99% of clip-on aerobars, which require a 32 mm round tube. They are compatible with one model offered by Giant. But clip-ons must suit YOU, they’re almost like a saddle (particularly in a 5-hour bike race). The shape, adjustability, length, etc. Plus, the Giant bars are expensive.
Plus, the aero benefit from the shape of the tubes of the frame and handlebars is really pretty small. You will be spending a large amount of money on a bike that is comparatively slow in a triathlon.
Either get a TT bike (for the geometry, and the speed and comfort that comes with it - as discussed in this thread), or a non-aero road bike (or an aero road bike with the standard round-shaped handlebars) to put clip-ons on.
What Blummenfelt does in draft legal races has no bearing on what is recommended for you, especially in an Ironman.
A TT bike will always be quicker. However the quickest bike for you will be the bike you enjoy riding the most. If you’re not gunning for podiums or age group placings then the aero road bike might be the better option if it improves your cycling by spending more hours on it.
Having said that modern TT bikes have so much cross over on fit coordinates that a lot of people can ride two or three different sizes, so get the biggest size you can and you won’t suffer with instability.
I’d urge you to take a step back and consider where you’re going with this line of thought.
The primary difference between a road bike and tri bike is the position it allows the rider to attain.
If you found the tri bike unstable, either you just don’t like the aero position a tri bike should put you in when on the extensions, or you were badly set-up/fitted.
If it’s the former, forget about the road bike with clip-ons option. A tri bike will handle much better than a road bike converted to try and achieve a tri bike fit.
If it’s the latter, the solution is not to give up on tri bikes, but to get fitted correctly on one.
I went the opposite direction to what you are proposing. I had done a few short duathlons and was giving triathlon a try. I didn’t want to splash out on a tri bike until I was sure I’d be sticking with the sport. I’d just bought a new road bike, so I converted the outgoing one to provide a tri position. First just added clip-ons. With everything else as I had it in road bike configuration, that put the clip-ons in the wrong place. The drag benefit would be pretty modest and it wasn’t terribly comfortable. So I swapped the stem and the seatpost, to put me significantly further forward and lower. That got me into a decent position. Drag was significantly reduced and I could pedal strongly while remaining comfortable. However, the bike handling was verging on dangerous. There was much too much load on the front wheel and even with the longer stem, my knees were too close to the clip-ons. I did a bunch of duathlons, an olympic and a 70.3 triathlon on that bike before buying a Felt IA tri bike. The proper tri bike was considerably more stable and comfortable to ride.
The short version is: If you already tried a tri bike, a road bike plus clip-on setup is not going to be more stable unless it’s basically just a road bike position using clip-ons. In which case there’s not much point doing it.
Given the information you provided, I’d say you should be considering two options.
A. Give the tri bike another shot, but this time get the set-up and fit correct.
B. Get a road bike, and ride it as a road bike.
First one was in California, 2003. Couple of significant climbs
Second was in 2007 - Newfoundland - flattish with one climb
Third was in 2018 flat. - Muncie…
‘03 was on a round tubed road bike with clip ons, shallow front wheel, road helmet, trispoke rear
07 was on a P2SL witb dual trispokes
18 was on a better fitting p2k with aero helmet
I rode within a couple of minutes on each course, all were accurate.
