Look them up… We have plenty of articles that talk about those…
The benefits of them and also the issues with them. They aren’t for everyone but they sure as FUCK aren’t a “SCAM”
Where did they say “Weight : it’s funny, Enve is now saying the reason they put hooks is to reduce weight” ?
They told me personally that they were able to save weight based the micro hooks ( or whatever people want to call them) . But that was sort of something that came as a bi product in the development phase of the wheels.
1 Like
This whole thing is very simple
There is a spectrum of uses from MTB to gravel to recreational road to competitive road to Tri to TT to Tour de France TT
Hookless could have and should have stopped at recreational road for now. And as their findings evolved, like they have with micro hooks, bring the tech further along the spectrum.
Instead we were fed some flawed data. I intentionally didn’t say misleading because many didn’t mean to mislead.
But we were fed a lot of flawed data and that is what a lot of people have reacting to, especially on a forum with a bunch of people at the end of the spectrum ( that use case spectrum, not the other spectrum 
)
5 Likes
Time out… They publish a calculator that very often will recommend a pressure outside the safe range for hookless.
But people should use it?
No. They put out a calculator that makes a recommendation for optimal tire pressure. You then pick a wheel/tire capable of implementing it
Their calculator came out before hookless.
8 Likes
I would call this a solid selection process …
What flawed data are you talking about?
Saying that something should be stopped at recreational road for now is a pretty bold statement. that would be mean that the % of issues has reached the % where a full recall is in need. Do you think that really is that case? Do you thank that we have reached that point where people are dying or being injured because of defects in hookless wheels?
I am saying beyond recreational road the tech is not optimal from a performance point of view.
I never said anything about recall. These wheels can be used safely, hands down, I have never said otherwise.
If you want to stroll down memory lane I can pull out the articles that got me interested in the topic, led me to testing things myself and got me to digging more and more into tire/wheel performance.
As I said yesterday I bought a set of hookless wheels. I know full well they are safe. They are just not optimal from a performance point of view. In my opinion.
3 Likes
Got it… What you’re really saying is that in your opinion hookless isn’t as fast as hooked… so whats the point beyond recreational?
There are conditions in which hookless is suboptimal. Last 3 races I did : Tremblant hands down I leave watts on the table. Xiamen China I am leaving good watts on the table. Cartagena Columbia, I am riding sub 72PSI. So I want a wheel I can ride optimally on each. This is for racing
Training. No problem. 65 PSI, wide tires, I am comfy. I need training wheels and training tires anyways. Race tires are too fragile.
Am I willing to sacrifice the flexibility of higher pressures in my training wheel, in exchange for lower cost : yes, absolutely. That is what I did.
But when someone says a zipp super 9 disc wheel which is a race only wheel is better because it is hookless, show me the data.
6 Likes
when you look at “industry leaders” who opine on a trend, i think it’s informative to consider where they stood on trends like road tubeless and tire widths. if you were ahead of the curve 5 or 8 years ago then some street cred has been rightfully built. if you ridiculed every advancement then if i’m a reader i would factor that in.
the only “scam” nowadays are the “hooked” wheels which are in every real sense hookless but contain a barely visible micro-hook to escape the scrutiny of hookless derangement syndrome. if i was still writing about all of this i’d identify these wheels - not that there’s anything wrong with them - but so readers could get a sense of how much of the world is moving over to hookless or practically hookless. i don’t pay enough attention to know whether the rest of the cycling media reports on this.
2 Likes
Clickbait title. Hookless are a scam just as much as disc brakes, right? I have hookless gravel, running tubeless, no issues 35-40 PSI. But I would never put them on road, and then doubly not if still on rim brakes.
The manufacturers want them so we get them. I just wish they’d be honest about that aspect. What was the road disc brake push? Uniformity. Why keep manufacturing disc for MTB, caliper for XC/gravel, and rim for road? Put everything on disc.
Why hookless? Easier to manufacture, alleged weight savings and cost savings on the production end. We all get it. It’s business. But let’s not trumpet unproven benefits. Just say, hey they’re safe (enough) and it’s better for our manufacturing process.
Is that what you just crushed my PR on going up Emigration Canyon?
It is what I rode
yes, there was a whole lot of opining, and UAE said “the hell with that, we want higher pressure and don’t want to go to MTB width to get it”.
and the problem got solved.
I’m good with that.
1 Like
maybe i’m behind in the news. isn’t UAE still road racing on hookless wheels?
thx. didn’t see that. interesting “hook”.
It’s a story of a need for a specific use case that ended up being something for the tool bag. and all the haters are missing the point. Truly fascinating
1 Like