This post goes all to all those who do home/self fits… why?
Why do you not want to pay for a fit…
I see so many posts re fitting, critique my fit, check out my position and so on… makes me wander what is wrong with getting a fit?
Fire away with comments…
I haven’t posted a critique my position thread (recently) but have never paid for a fit and doubt I ever will. Perhaps if I was desperately searching for a solution to a particularly acute comfort issue I would consider it but otherwise no way. I’m already getting everything I want right out of the sport and I just have no motivation to spend money here. I feel the same about a powermeter, running clinics, metabolic testing etc. etc. I’m not denying they may all make me faster but in terms of my personal satisfaction the time and money is better spent elsewhere. I also refuse to schedule my training in case I miss a sunny opportunity to ride and freely admit that when buying new equipment the priority for me is price, comfort and looks in that order. Possible performance benefits are a distant fourth. Specific issues I have with the idea of paying for a bike fit are:
I guess the bottom line is going moderately fast is a side effect for me of training in a way that I enjoy - not the main point.
I assume your talking about just getting a bike fit and no time in a wind tunnel (no average age grouper needs to do that). Considering you can get a bike for for around $75, it makes me wonder why you wouldn’t pay to go get fit too. If you’re gonna spend money on a nice bike why don’t you just pay for a fit from someone whose job is to fit people bikes?
I was a roady decades ago and was enough of a student of the sport to know how to fit myself on a road bike. I know what adjustments to make for various compromises, injury prevention…I know more than most bike shop salesmen. I know that there are experts in bike fit that can teach me things…but I also know that power output on the bike (as well as comfort) are ADAPTABLE. Meaning that if I’m close and then train a lot, I will acclimate and MY position will then be my most powerful and comfortable. So I don’t see value in spending the $$ for a fit. For someone new to the sport, I highly suggest they pay some money and get off on the right foot!
Now when it came time to learn about tri bike geometry and fitting, I read everything I could from this site until I felt like I had a basic understanding of the mechanics and the goals of tri bike fit. Tri bike fitting can actually be very simple. I think it gets complicated in trying to find COMFORT. And that’s where a good fitter with a variety of bars/stems/seats can be well worth all the $$ they charge.
But I have muddled my way through and now feel capable of fitting myself on a tri bike too.
It’s probably 2 things that have kept me from getting a professional fit:
I just took both my TT and road bikes up to the Human performance lab at Ball State University. Although its only been a week it could have been the best investment I’ve made in the sport thus far. Found muscle imbalances, that one leg is significantly longer than the other, and major flexibility issues that have all been leading to reoccurring injury’s. Not to mention how much more comfortable I am and the noticeable increase in power output. So yes for me it was a very valuable.
So I don’t see value in spending the $$ for a fit. For someone new to the sport, I highly suggest they pay some money and get off on the right foot!
I agree. If starting out from scratch and you know nothing, this may be a good starting point to get you off in the right direction. The problem is, and their have been many examples of this here on the forum, of people paying big dollars for a fit and then coming on here with a “critique my fit” thread and almost everything has been wrong with it - wrong bike, wrong position etc . . I think it starts with sourcing out a reliable place to buy the bike and get fit, in the first place, because clearly, even getting a “professional fit” is sometimes of little help.
I agree with Fleck. Last year, I came off $75 for a professional bike fit from Inside Out Sports. The fitter basically told me my fit was already optimized and there was not much he could recommend. I specifically asked if I could go lower. He said he wouldn’t advise it, not even for short course racing. Since then I’ve dropped the front end 3-4cm and just raced a HIM Saturday in that position.
So it was a complete waste of money for me.
Not everyone has access to a good fitter or a decent shop.
I’m in Scotland, and I’m fairly certain that I know more about fitting than most bike shops here (there will be exceptions).
Because there isn’t anyone FIST certified here, or (until recently) any Retul guys (there are a couple in England now, still not handy for me), I learned all I could, asked for feedback, tinkered, tried stuff out, until I got to where I am now.
That position, which (in the absence of a wind tunnel, or Retul) is (I believe) as good as I’ll get from a fitter. It’s comfy and it passes the eyeball aero test.
Steve not specifically for you I just hit reply.
When I got my PC3, I got a basic fit from where I bought it (EndureIt Naperville Il). They did as good a job as they could based on my Tri bike knowledge (little) my experience on a Tri bike (little). It was a basic starting point.
I felt like, if I was going to make a commitment to this level of bike - for a hobbie - I also had to commit to the training to give the bike a reasonable chance to make a difference. I then rode it for a summer and did a few (4) events. Once I understood the bike, fit, requirements and level of comfort issues; I tinkered with the fit myself (small changes). I read a lot on this forum. I learned a lot from that tinkering. It allowed me to have enough knowledge to have a meaningful discussion with the next fit (retul at VisionQuest Skokie Il).
I decided that comfort was easier to work on myself. For me comfort is not about prior injury limiitations but more about fitness and flexibility - something that I needed to work to achieve. When I went in for my latest fit (I had the existing baseline) so - I asked for the best optimal areo/power fit “by the numbers” pushing the ranges that are commonly agreed to as optimal. With this fit we adjusted my hip, knee, ankle tracking. Much more agressive overall on stack and reach and adjusted the seat and bars accordingly etc… It was a big change from where I was.
Then I trained and worked on flexibility and seat time to make sure I could stay in aero for the events. After 60 days, the fit is great. I am faster, feel good on the bike and can continue to increase fitness. This process worked for me.
Your optimum fit will change over time. You can keep pushing the envelope if that is your goal. So - if you can get someone knowlegable to give you a basic fit a home to start, I don’t see anything worng with that. Just make sure they know what they are doing. But, as your fitness and flexibiliy increase I think you need to go back and have a professional help you optimize.
I assume your talking about just getting a bike fit and no time in a wind tunnel (no average age grouper needs to do that). Considering you can get a bike for for around $75, it makes me wonder why you wouldn’t pay to go get fit too. If you’re gonna spend money on a nice bike why don’t you just pay for a fit from someone whose job is to fit people bikes?
Yes, bike fit only.
I haven’t posted a critique my position thread (recently) but have never paid for a fit and doubt I ever will. Perhaps if I was desperately searching for a solution to a particularly acute comfort issue I would consider it but otherwise no way. I’m already getting everything I want right out of the sport and I just have no motivation to spend money here. I feel the same about a powermeter, running clinics, metabolic testing etc. etc. I’m not denying they may all make me faster but in terms of my personal satisfaction the time and money is better spent elsewhere. I also refuse to schedule my training in case I miss a sunny opportunity to ride and freely admit that when buying new equipment the priority for me is price, comfort and looks in that order. Possible performance benefits are a distant fourth. Specific issues I have with the idea of paying for a bike fit are:
I guess the bottom line is going moderately fast is a side effect for me of training in a way that I enjoy - not the main point.
I agree with absolutely everything you say here Ben. Awesomely stated.
We think very much alike (which makes me want to shower):
“You know, I’ve thought about it, and I’m not serious in the traditional sense. I pursue athletics because it ignites my mind and changes my perspective on the world. I am not saying a PM would hurt that, but in some ways the organic nature of exertion, and the confluence of body and soul that comes on those transcendent days, might be lost in the numbers. For that same reason, I don’t have a coach. There really can be beauty and spirituality in this sport, and I’m worried that data would change that.”
**
Let’s see if I’m regretting my aversion to power meters by the third lap on Sunday 
I actually don’t recommend newbies getting a fit right away. Then, after 3 months and an ITB injury and series of knee problems their running partners will tell them it’s running problems. At 6 months someone smart will suggest it’s a bike fit issue. That’s where they come to see me and see usefulness in a fit.
Those who get a good fit initially don’t have problems and therefore don’t see the value of the fit.
The real sad part of this is that some “professional fitters” aren’t and give the profession a bad name. Look for someone with a reputation, not just a job in a shop.
We do think very much alike! (which makes me want to grab a cigarette)
I really think you are going to surprise some people on Sunday. I’m excited to watch!
P.S. The cross-thread quote was probably my proudest ST moment
There’s a wealth of free information about fitting on this website alone, let alone across the entire internet. There are many thousands of photos of pro triathletes and pro time trialers that can be studied. Put your bike on your trainer and your camera on the auto setting and snap some photos. Compare them to what you see and read. Adjust, test ride, adapt. See what works for you.
IMHO, bike fitting is an art with dashes of science. The person who will sell you a bike fit for $75 probably knows less about what he’s doing than half the people on Slowtwitch.
I’d be willing to bet that, if you went to 10 different bike fitters, no two of them would result in the same fit. But they’d probably all be within a fairly narrow range that you could rather easily figure out for yourself with a little research. I’d also be willing to bet that, even the best fit of the ten would still yield something you’d feel wasn’t right over time and that you’d end up changing. I know a lot of folks who’ve had professional fittings, some of them by prestigeous folks whose names are well known on this forum. I don’t know a single one of them that rides the exact fit that was recommended to them. There is no miracle fit.
It’s like water spiraling down a drain. You spin around and around the ideal fit and keep changing things gradually and, eventually, you get it dialed in. And when you do, you better remember to write it all down so you have the reference point.
Don’t discount the value of posting your photo and subjecting yourself to the Slowtwitch Forum’s critics. It’s a great freebie. You have to take the good with the bad, but if you’ve been here for long, you probably know who knows what they’re talking about and who doesn’t. Just make sure the photo you post allows people to really see how you fit the bike. The bike should be level (front axle to rear axel). We need to see all of you and, in particular, all the way to the bottom of your foot. We need to see your leg extension at the bottom of your pedal stroke (which is NOT with the pedal at 6 o’clock, but rather is with the crank essentially on a line from pedal, through bottom bracket and up through the center of the saddle). You should try not to pose your photo in the right position, but rather capture it while you’re actually cranking away at something like a race effort. When you try to pose with your leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke, you tend to drop your heel which makes your leg look straighter. Then people will say your saddle is too high when it really isn’t. Set your camera to auto-shoot multiple pictures and keep taking them until you get one that’s right. Your head should be in the position it’ll be in when you’re racing. Don’t post a photo where you’re looking at the floor. If you’ll be using an aero helmet, wear it for the photo and ignore the idiots who think they’re being funny/original when they ask if you always wear it when you ride the trainer.
Adaptation is an important aspect of bike fit that’s sort of a wild card. A fit may initially yield less power, but may be more aerodynamic. If you can adapt to the position over a reasonable period of time, you may end up being faster because your power output rises or because the loss of power is more than offset by the aerodynamic gains. I doubt many “professional” fitters will send you out the door with a fit that yields less power and then tell you to see if you can adapt to it. But that may be the best course, and it’s a course you’ll never find if you aren’t willing to experiment on your own.
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I have had a few bike fits. One in '91, another around '99 and then one last year. All 3 were radically different in their views on fitting. The FIST/Retul was good in the sense that it helped ME understand what causes what on a tt fit. I am nowhere near where I was fitted with FIST, but that is because I finally threw out one piece of advice and took in another: accepted that nose riding isn’t bad and went way shorter on cranks than I ever thought was necessary.
I think a fit that teaches you so you can tweak on your own with knowledge rather than ‘let’s see what this does’ is almost as valuable. I would not go for another fit, but feel I may never have learned what I know now w/o having been through my last one. I’m glad I did.
I don’t know where I would go in my hick town.
Some people are just not tuned in enough, and also refuse to fine tune their fit from the “expert”.
ME: “My saddle height needs to be lowered 1mm, feels too high. Going to lower the hoods about 2mm as well. Need to narrow my Q by 2mm (Speedplay cleats). Perfect.”
MY WIFE: “Umm… I guess it feels ok. I was fitted at the bike shop. Althought my back hurts and I feel stretched. I’ll just ride it like this as the guy at the bike shop must know…”
@ dkennison,
How was your experience at Endure IT? I’m a noob and was considering going there for a fitting bc I live out in the burbs and its kinda hard to get to any decent place downtown.
the people on this forum probably know more about fit than the guy at the bike shop.
I would never pay for a fit when I have a trainer, flip video, and mirror.