Three Shoes will have mid-soles that in-part feature a HOKA specific SCEVA compound that they call ProFlyX. Both the Road and Trail Product Line Managers discussed the 2022 line of shoes with Believe in the Run.
I know Hoka has gotten a lot of flack from shoe reviewers for continually sticking to CMEVA and “tuning” their version of EVA mid-soles. Although none of these shoes mid-soles are 100% Super Critical, Hoka is definitely jumping into the “Foam Wars.”
As a mostly Hoka loyalist since 2018 I’m really happy about it this. The shoes I have that aren’t Hoka that I use, although great, still don’t provide the wide platform that Hokas do for me.
Three Shoes will have mid-soles that in-part feature a HOKA specific SCEVA compound that they call ProFlyX. Both the Road and Trail Product Line Managers discussed the 2022 line of shoes with Believe in the Run.
I know Hoka has gotten a lot of flack from shoe reviewers for continually sticking to CMEVA and “tuning” their version of EVA mid-soles. Although none of these shoes mid-soles are 100% Super Critical, Hoka is definitely jumping into the “Foam Wars.”
As a mostly Hoka loyalist since 2018 I’m really happy about it this. The shoes I have that aren’t Hoka that I use, although great, still don’t provide the wide platform that Hokas do for me.
They really have to do something different. They are getting absolutely dusted, as far as I can tell, in the midsole game. There are at least 5 other brands of shoes that I would buy over Hoka at this point. My last experience with Hoka shoes will make it hard for me to give them another shot. It will probably take something along the lines of a shoe getting the hype that the Saucony Endorphin Speed was able to get.
What was your last experience? My only bad experience was the Bondi B reboot.
I currently have: Bondi 7 and Mach 4 as my main shoes. Then still knocking around the Mach 1 for specific use cases and still have the Evo Carbon Rocket+ also for specific use cases.
Other shoes I have are Metaspeed Sky, NB FuelCell Rebel 2, and Asics Gel Nimbus Lite 2 (Just got these).
Rebel V2 has been a great interval shoe. But if you’re gripping and ripping it like you should be when using it, it hasn’t been the most stable platform for me. Which is why I run mostly in Hokas due to the wide base.
Rincon 2 was my last experience with Hoka. The Mach 4 would be the shoe I would most consider giving a try if there weren’t so many other good shoes out there to try right now. I think that’s the biggest obstacle to shoe manufacturers right now; everyone has stepped up their game so if someone tries your product as doesn’t like, it there are lots of other shoe companies putting out really nice products. Too many options to try out without having to give the brand that didn’t impress you another shot.
I look at the Rebel V2 as everything the Rincon 1/2 should have been. Rincon wasn’t a replacement for the Napali, it was somewhat of a far lighter clifton type thing where you could grip it and rip it…great, light, upper. And then at 125-150 miles that midsole just died.
Have you tried the Nike Invincible? Really wide platform, 39mm of stack, ZoomX foam. If I wanted a Hoka-type shoe without foam that was introduced in 1975 (by Brooks?), I’d take a hard look at the Invincible.
Yes, interesting to have Hoka moving to more evolved foams.
This will make them more competitive for “race” shoes.
I guess they are already very competitive for training, as shown by ST last poll, and several athletes without shoe contract choosing them for training, such as Ruth Astle, indicating during a Q&A while stucked at airport in South Africa (thanks Omicron variant), after IM South Africa win, she was racing in Asics Metaspeed but training in Hoka Clifton 8 and Hoka Carbon X
A video from a french guy living in Belgium and speaking english, giving a good recap of all foam used by different brands, with indicative durometry measured for all of them on existing shoes :
At 5:25 he talk about Supercritical EVA (apparently CO2 infused EVA), he measured on several shoes (Skechers HyperBurst, …) between 30 and 35.
Apparently current CMEVA from Mach 4 top layer and Clifton 8 full midsole is around 32, and I suppose the SCEVA (CO2 infused EVA) of Carbon X3 will be around same value, but with more bounce ?
Hoka Mafate Speed 4 will apparently also have the SCEVA in lower layer (same as Tecton X config, but without the carbon plates).
ProflyX name
Profly is historically the Hoka name for “2 layer midsole” (Mach 4, Elevon, …)
ProflyX is historically the Hoka name for “2 layer midsole with a carbon plate in between” (Carbon X, Carbon X2, …)
Profly + will be used apparently for Mach Supersonic because of SCEVA in top layer (and no plate) instead of normal CMEVA
ProflyX will still be used for Carbon X 3 (SCEVA in top layer, above carbon plate), Tecton X (SCEVA in bottom layer, below dual carbon plate)
Logically Mafate Speed 4 with no carbon plate and SCEVA lower layer should be also in the Profly + category
Have you tried the Nike Invincible? Really wide platform, 39mm of stack, ZoomX foam. If I wanted a Hoka-type shoe without foam that was introduced in 1975 (by Brooks?), I’d take a hard look at the Invincible.
I have not. But it is highly unlikely I will ever give Nike my money ever again.
Have you tried the Nike Invincible? Really wide platform, 39mm of stack, ZoomX foam. If I wanted a Hoka-type shoe without foam that was introduced in 1975 (by Brooks?), I’d take a hard look at the Invincible.
I have not. But it is highly unlikely I will ever give Nike my money ever again.
Especially as the Invincible is recognised by most testers as quite unstable, despite “large”, wich is quite the opposite of a Hoka shoe (and what you are looking for).
Have you tried the Nike Invincible? Really wide platform, 39mm of stack, ZoomX foam. If I wanted a Hoka-type shoe without foam that was introduced in 1975 (by Brooks?), I’d take a hard look at the Invincible.
I have not. But it is highly unlikely I will ever give Nike my money ever again.
Especially as the Invincible is recognised by most testers as quite unstable, despite “large”, wich is quite the opposite of a Hoka shoe (and what you are looking for).
Well there’s that! Yeah none of the videos and reviews I’ve consumed had me jumping and motivated to purchase a shoe against this specific conviction.
They really have to do something different. They are getting absolutely dusted, as far as I can tell, in the midsole game. …It will probably take something along the lines of a shoe getting the hype that the Saucony Endorphin Speed was able to get.
their sales number say something different though. I know of several running stores in UT, NM & AZ where they are on pace to become the #1 brand in those run specialty stores this year or by Q2 2022 if the current pace continues. They are outselling Brooks, Nike, Saucony etc in those shops. Even though most of those stores have less SKUs from Hoka
They really have to do something different. They are getting absolutely dusted, as far as I can tell, in the midsole game. …It will probably take something along the lines of a shoe getting the hype that the Saucony Endorphin Speed was able to get.
their sales number say something different though. I know of several running stores in UT, NM & AZ where they are on pace to become the #1 brand in those run specialty stores this year or by Q2 2022 if the current pace continues. They are outselling Brooks, Nike, Saucony etc in those shops. Even though most of those stores have less SKUs from Hoka
Is this more due to their trail shoe offerings than road shoes?
What about the new Bondi 7 X. (Great front page article by slowman.) What type of foam in them? Should I wait for 2022 to buy a Hoka shoe?
According to Hoka it’s a newer tuned CMEVA mid-sole and not a SuperCritical EVA. As far as getting that shoe. Tons of people love it and I wish I had bought it over the Metaspeed Sky in some respects. There is limited utility for an upper echelon super shoe if your marathon or Ironman Marathon is > 4.5 Hours, which happened to me at IMAZ.
They really have to do something different. They are getting absolutely dusted, as far as I can tell, in the midsole game. …It will probably take something along the lines of a shoe getting the hype that the Saucony Endorphin Speed was able to get.
their sales number say something different though. I know of several running stores in UT, NM & AZ where they are on pace to become the #1 brand in those run specialty stores this year or by Q2 2022 if the current pace continues. They are outselling Brooks, Nike, Saucony etc in those shops. Even though most of those stores have less SKUs from Hoka
Interesting. I’m on the southeast coast of the US and you really don’t see Hoka much around here. ON has kind of taken over most of the display spaces at the running shops I encounter. Be interesting to see how their sales break down geographically.
Is this more due to their trail shoe offerings than road shoes?
No, my guess is their road shoes outsell their trails shoes, at least from all the data I’ve seen but again it’s a limited subset.
The bet I would make is there is some relationship between where the specialty running store is located and how strong/big/robust the trail running community & trail system is.
What about the new Bondi 7 X. (Great front page article by slowman.) What type of foam in them? Should I wait for 2022 to buy a Hoka shoe?
Apparently Bondi X foam is the same CMEVA as top layer of Mach 4 and full midsole of Clifton 8, IMO same durometer (32), softer foam currently sold by Hoka.
They really have to do something different. They are getting absolutely dusted, as far as I can tell, in the midsole game. There are at least 5 other brands of shoes that I would buy over Hoka at this point. My last experience with Hoka shoes will make it hard for me to give them another shot. It will probably take something along the lines of a shoe getting the hype that the Saucony Endorphin Speed was able to get.
I’m a shoe whore and I totally agree with this. They are the last in my list. I would buy Saucony, Nike, Asics over Hokas. They are nothing but just okay shoes for me these days. I’ve gone through at least 10+ pairs of Hokas for the past years and stopped buying them because I like other brands shoes better.
I’m a shoe whore and I totally agree with this. I would buy Saucony, .
I’ve seen the next models for a few shoe brands, including Saucony. I think Saucony will be grow a fair bit next year based on what I saw. They are crushing it globally, mostly bc they’ve really figured out the Chinese market. I can see their Endorphin line up driving a lot of sales next year and taking it from brooks, Hoka and Nike
