I started training for my first olympic triathlon about 6 months ago.
The event will be held in september this year.
At the moment i am trying to figure out why im so slow on the bike, although i think my position is not that bad, considering that it is only a road bike with aero bars.
I am 175cm tall and weigh around 69-70kg. my ftp is around 220 (yeah not that high sadly) watts and i am aiming for around 190-200watts at race day.
My current training course has pretty average surface, but is a 8km straight road with low traffic - pretty sweet for testing stuff.
MyWindSock is rating my current setup at between 0.30 and 0.32 CdA - which is horribly bad as i think.
Please find a picture of my current position below.
I tried alot of things with saddle height and bar angles but after a few tests, this position seems like the fastest for the possibilities i have with this bike.
Still i think i could go alot faster for the power i put out.
My last session from today, gave me a CdA of 0.306 at an average speed of 31,1 kmh with around 170watts.
I don’t know where i am loosing so much speed - most of the people i talk too have horrible positions, they dont tuck in their shoulders, head up in the air and still get CdA around 0.26 to 0.27.
Do you have any suggestions what i could try out to be faster?
the bike is fairly new, i bought it in february and the tires have only about 500km of “outside” distance on them, i rode this bike only indoors until around may, so i dont think that they are worn out if thats what you are suggesting. 15w is a good amount of saving thats true, but what change in tires do you think can make it up? pressure maybe? im riding around 90-95 psi.
brake rubbing is not the case, im checking this all the time before each ride.
the bars and pads are as close together as possible, my forearms are almost a straight line.
im trying to hold that position like 95% of my ride when testing stuff.
today i had a small segment of 4km where i was putting out around 180watts for 33kmh average - still not fast enough for what i am trying to achieve.
im considering this, but will it save me 15-20watts? i dont think so - still i think i should be faster with the worat helmet in this position, i just dont know why i aint.
I think the previous poster was meaning about the actual tyres as in brand, model, size (width), pressure, and what tubes. Not whether worn.
There’s a notable difference in rollong resistance between relatively cheap tyres and high end ones.
The very fastest (Vittoria Corsa and/or Specialized Turbo Cotton) can be relatively delecate…but a lot of others on this site rave about Conti GP5000 as a fast tyre thst still has some puncture resistance, + using latex tubes to reduce rolling resistance.
(Latex do leak far more so need to be pumped up on the day of the race. And need to br installed carefully to avoid installation damage causing punctures. But reduce rolling resistance and are far more supple.
That the endurance Canyon rim brake model? Looks like it.
If so, stack on that versus a aeroad or race version is taller. Meaning less aero on the clipons.
Also, if so, the tires Canyon list for that are 5w a piece slower than a GP5000 without latex tubes according to BRR website.
Next, thats super narrow pad width. I would widen it and do more work to adapt to the position. I would buy a big negative rise stem if you want it more aero instead of pad width. In my experience on clipons back in the day, pad width hurt my power more than I gained in aero versus addressing the stack.
Also, yes, helmet is a good bang for buck other than the tires.
Just get GP5000 and ride it that way all the time. Canyon says that bike came with “GP SL†tires. I may be wrong.
thats not an endurace thats a canyon ultimate cf sl - the tyres are 25mm continental gp (not 5000) just Grand Prix. i dont know what tubes because i hadnt taken a look into it yet - i didnt think that tubes would make such a high impact!
ok so im going to try a lower tyre pressure, what are you considering?
why is a wider pad faster, i thought you wanna make em as nattow as possible, im gonna try that too next time thanks.
First-position doesn’t cost anything. If you can get lower (lose the spacer and slam it) there will be cda gains to be had if power isn’t sacrificed. Younger/flexible athletes can do this easier than old farts like myself. You want the smallest profile heading into the wind.
Second-holding 0.86-0.90 IF for an Olympic bike is fine. I always aim for my np to be about 0.92 That’s the typical high end goal for that distance.
Third-find a comfortable no wrinkle kit.
Fourth-aero helmets are a good investment. Some can be had relatively cheap.
thanks, im trying to get the flat dust cap from canyon to slam the stam conpletely (there are no spacers left) but they are not answering my mails sadly - would make me 2cm lower in the front.
on the picture that is my race fit suit already, its super duper tight and comfy - cant get any better.
im considering buying a scott split helmet, its the cheapest aero helmet i can find.
thats not an endurace thats a canyon ultimate cf sl - the tyres are 25mm continental gp (not 5000) just Grand Prix. i dont know what tubes because i hadnt taken a look into it yet - i didnt think that tubes would make such a high impact!
ok so im going to try a lower tyre pressure, what are you considering?
why is a wider pad faster, i thought you wanna make em as nattow as possible, im gonna try that too next time thanks.
If I were you I’d definitely change tyres to GP5000 and fit vittoria latex tubes. If your tires measure out to 27mm on the rim and were talking a poor surface around 75psi will be optimum. If the surface you’re going to be racing on is better increase slightly.
Everyone Is different but if narrowing your pad prevents you from getting a good shrug then you’re probably going to be better off leaving them wider and having a more effective shrug. Narrowing your elbows and having wider shoulders won’t make you any faster.
Folks posting about average watts, FTP, etc . . . everyone makes them quite high. It is always interesting that although mine seems low (at 60 years old), I am much faster with a lower FTP than what others post. Never had a professional fit, never been to the tunnel . . . have read and studied. I just ride. I am VERY comfortable, have fiddled around a good bit and have experimented on the same course many times.
My personal opinion is that you look great on the bike. Do you feel good? Are you having fun? If so, learn as much as you can and just go for it.
Your position looks fairly high and a bit bunched up.
My thoughts: you basically need to take your position and rotate it forwards around the bottom bracket.
What saddle are you using? Try a proper tri saddle.
What’s your seatpost? Can you get one with a forward offset?
Stem - get a steeply angled stem (like an old MTB stem) and mount it upside down (I use a 35 degree stem).
That should get you into a lower and comfortable position.
Agree with most of the above, aero helmet can buy you
5-7 watts depending on the helmet you have vs the helmet you get.
GP5000 and latex tubes will make a difference total of possibly 10 or so.
Even if you can’t find that flat dust cap, you can always change the stem to one with more drop.
How clean is your drivetrain?
Not sure what power meter you are using, but drivetrain losses if you don’t have a clean drive train with a top shelf lube ( see friction facts ) Also, sure about your power meter calibration? It reading high could explain a bit too.
Tire pressure, google silca tire pressure calculator for an idea on optimal pressure for your weight and measured tire width ( measured, not just what the stamp on the side says )
This can all add up to a lot.
Your power to speed is pretty close to what mine is on my road bike, and you get slightly higher mywindsock numbers than I get when I’m riding low and aggressive on my road bike.
I’d actually be interested in seeing what you could do with an aero helmet, GP5000, latex tubes, optimal tire pressure, and then get in the drops, bend the elbows, get low, and see how fast you can go at similar power output, and compare comfort as well.
Your position is pretty good. Keep in mind that people getting CdA in the mid to low 0.20s are doing so on aero frames with deep wheels, wearing aero helmets, etc.
The drop bars produce significant drag and sit out in “clean” air; you’re on a road bike so nothing you can do about that.
Move the bottle cage on the down tube to a setup between the aerobars so that the bottle fills in the gap between your forearms.
Latex tubes for racing (cheapest per watt upgrade).
Aero helmet (you can get a Giro Advantage2 fairly cheap these days…not top tier anymore, but not far off). I have an Aerohead MIPS (so pretty top tier) that was $125 onsale online.
Wheelbuilder cover for the rear wheel ($100) if you aren’t going to run deep wheels.
I am using the Favero BePro Power Meter (single sided) - it is properly calibrated and checked against my indoor trainer with only a 0,5-1% difference - so the numbers should be highly accurate.
I actually feel great on the bike, comfortable and it feels like i can put out the power evenly as if i would ride upright. I had troubles with my first 2 saddles and now bought a Bontrager Hilo Comp, which feels really great. I have it forward as much as possible and 1,5cm higher than usual. I am sitting almost at the tip of the saddle, took some time to get used to it but i can relax in this position and have most of my weight on the elbows. I tried alot playing with bar angles and wide and narrow pad setups, the current seems to be fastest. Narrow pads make me naturally tuck in my shoulders, so thats why i keep it like that.
I am considering on buying the conti 5000 with latex tubes now and see what it gets me - trying lower tyre pressure also next ride.
- still i think i should be faster with the worat helmet in this position, i just dont know why i aint.