Hi,
I am doing TT but as former bodybuilder my friends tell me that my aero is like wardrobe 
8% bodyfat but still 86 kg, 191 cm
I need to produce massive watts but still not enough to beat light racers with much less watts…
This is my position I have now and can keep for race.
Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0
Any ideas?
Problem will be frontal are, especially my delts, but I do not think I can change it a lot…
Thanks for ideas or if you point me to somebody who can help.
Jan
I won’t wait for the experts to turn up to say: looks like a pretty agressive position to me.
When you say you’re beaten by light riders with much fewer watts, what kind of course are we talking about and what watt difference? (no pun intended) And what weight difference roughly, if you have an idea?
Its impossible to say what will make you faster with certainty, but we can give you some things to test out. Hard to get a good sense of the position without a straight frontal shot too. But from the angled shot, it looks like your pads could possibly be moved closer together.
You also look positioned very far forwards. It could be worth experimenting moving the seat back. With a move back, you also get to move the seat down, which should decrease frontal area. It also puts your hands further ahead of your head, which could help aerodynamics. You would have to test. If you are already producing enough watts, it could be worth closing the hip angle and possibly losing some watts if it makes you faster overall.
To really know how much you are being slowed down by your aerodynamics(?), it would help if you could share some power and speed numbers, and like mentioned, the course profile and weather. It is fair to compare across competitors on the same day, but not as much across different times/days/years. Weather and air density play a huge part in achieved speed, as does pavement conditions and tire and air pressure selection.
You also look positioned very far forwards. It could be worth experimenting moving the seat back. With a move back, you also get to move the seat down, which should decrease frontal area. It also puts your hands further ahead of your head, which could help aerodynamics. You would have to test. If you are already producing enough watts, it could be worth closing the hip angle and possibly losing some watts if it makes you faster overall.
Agree. Looks like you have large calfs. Move down and back on the bike so your legs are not so straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke. This will minimize the frontal area of your legs. In fact, the lower can sit while still producing power, probably the better.
I won’t wait for the experts to turn up to say: looks like a pretty agressive position to me.
When you say you’re beaten by light riders with much fewer watts, what kind of course are we talking about and what watt difference? (no pun intended) And what weight difference roughly, if you have an idea?
My biggest competitors are mostly around 70-75 kg and doing avg 320-330 W what I know.
On flat TT I have to put around 390 W to beat them by few seconds,
When it is not pure flat TT, I am always behind them.
Saturday race, difference 50 W and was behind by 10 secs.
Not an expert, but I’d add more reach. You are falling over in front of your elbows. Could also consider moving elbow pads closer together.
You also look positioned very far forwards. It could be worth experimenting moving the seat back. With a move back, you also get to move the seat down, which should decrease frontal area. It also puts your hands further ahead of your head, which could help aerodynamics. You would have to test. If you are already producing enough watts, it could be worth closing the hip angle and possibly losing some watts if it makes you faster overall.
Agree. Looks like you have large calfs. Move down and back on the bike so your legs are not so straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke. This will minimize the frontal area of your legs. In fact, the lower can sit while still producing power, probably the better.
Do not want to look stupid but I always thought that on TT bike you usually put your seat as high as possible and move as forward as possible till you do not loose power. Always had my seat height little higher than on my usual road bike or mtb.
Do not tell me I was wrong all the time lol
Not an expert, but I’d add more reach. You are falling over in front of your elbows. Could also consider moving elbow pads closer together.
I am affraid can not move them more closer
Are you comfortable with the saddle in that position? Do you feel powerful and secure when riding hard?
Things I think about and remember that I do way more aero testing than I currently do bike fits.
I’d make sure my saddle was comfortable and I was comfortable where I was sitting. With the stub nose saddles you sit forward on them and from the pics it looks like you’re on it correctly more or less
Then I think you need to thing about reach and forearm angle. Being that compact is forcing you to be higher in the front than you need to be.
Anyway some non caffeinated thoughts
Not an expert, but I’d add more reach. You are falling over in front of your elbows. Could also consider moving elbow pads closer together.
I am affraid can not move them more closer
You may be able to flip the brackets. Move the right one to the left and vice-versa. So that the “wing” part points towards the stem instead of outwards.
You want to close up that triangle, drop your head and shrug those shoulders. You might need a bit more reach as you close up the front since your upper arm angle is not obtuse right now and it may make breathing harder than it needs to be. Look at race pictures from someone that’s faster than you on 50w less on the flat, you’ll get the idea pretty quickly.
I’m on my track bike here. My shoulders are normally 19 inches wide. I’m shrugging them to 13.5 in this shot. Knees to the stem as well when pedalling. Be compact, be low, be narrow.
Hi,
I am doing TT but as former bodybuilder my friends tell me that my aero is like wardrobe
8% bodyfat but still 86 kg, 191 cm
I need to produce massive watts but still not enough to beat light racers with much less watts…
This is my position I have now and can keep for race.
Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0
Any ideas?
Problem will be frontal are, especially my delts, but I do not think I can change it a lot…
Thanks for ideas or if you point me to somebody who can help.
Jan
Looking at the photos…and not knowing the actual ground and air speeds, saying you’re that many watts over folks that are “only” 10kg less…I’d bet on an over-reporting power meter providing some confusion.
You make it sound like you’re a 250lb crossfitter, you’re not.
Ground speed in the 46kph range. Looking at his position and knowing he’s 6’3" and 190 pounds, a CdA of 0.26 checks out with 380w.
Do you think a 0.26 CdA is good/reasonable for him? I’m somewhat similar size (189cm, 78kg) and recently tested at around 0.255 CdA. We tried several different front-end adjustments (moving arm pads closer together, further apart, angled 15 degrees, angled 27 degrees, moved forward 1cm) and the CdA didn’t budge for any of them. I’m wondering if we might have been looking in the wrong place for gains (maybe we should have been looking at something like seatpost height, as suggested above, which I similarly run pretty high). But I don’t have a lot of context for how a 0.25-0.26 stacks up for people of our height and I’m wondering if you all have some sense for that.
Sorry for being long-winded and don’t mean to hijack the thread; hopefully this adds to the discussion in some way. Hoping you can also find some good gains, Delkim.
Do you think a 0.26 CdA is good/reasonable for him? I’m somewhat similar size (189cm, 78kg) and recently tested at around 0.255 CdA. We tried several different front-end adjustments (moving arm pads closer together, further apart, angled 15 degrees, angled 27 degrees, moved forward 1cm) and the CdA didn’t budge for any of them. I’m wondering if we might have been looking in the wrong place for gains (maybe we should have been looking at something like seatpost height, as suggested above, which I similarly run pretty high). But I don’t have a lot of context for how a 0.25-0.26 stacks up for people of our height and I’m wondering if you all have some sense for that.
Sorry for being long-winded and don’t mean to hijack the thread; hopefully this adds to the discussion in some way. Hoping you can also find some good gains, Delkim.
It’s high. One challenge comparing to others is PMs reading high, but if the .25/.26 is real, there is work to do.
You look scrunched up. I would add some reach.
Do you think a 0.26 CdA is good/reasonable for him? I’m somewhat similar size (189cm, 78kg) and recently tested at around 0.255 CdA. We tried several different front-end adjustments (moving arm pads closer together, further apart, angled 15 degrees, angled 27 degrees, moved forward 1cm) and the CdA didn’t budge for any of them. I’m wondering if we might have been looking in the wrong place for gains (maybe we should have been looking at something like seatpost height, as suggested above, which I similarly run pretty high). But I don’t have a lot of context for how a 0.25-0.26 stacks up for people of our height and I’m wondering if you all have some sense for that.
Sorry for being long-winded and don’t mean to hijack the thread; hopefully this adds to the discussion in some way. Hoping you can also find some good gains, Delkim.
It depends. We’re still all bound by our morphology and flexibility. If you’re taller than 98% of people, have broad shoulders and hips as well as wide lower legs, 0.25 might very well be as good as it’s going to get for you.
Regarding seatpost height, it only works if you also drop the front (or add reach, which drops your shoulders). Otherwise you’re just dropping your ass which does bugger all for A, and cannot make Cd better.
So I’ll reiterate with one more element, be low, be narrow, be compact, be flat. Then put in the work and train the position.
Hi,
I am doing TT but as former bodybuilder my friends tell me that my aero is like wardrobe
8% bodyfat but still 86 kg, 191 cm
I need to produce massive watts but still not enough to beat light racers with much less watts…
This is my position I have now and can keep for race.
Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0
Any ideas?
Problem will be frontal are, especially my delts, but I do not think I can change it a lot…
Thanks for ideas or if you point me to somebody who can help.
Jan
You’re super far forward, might not be a problem as you put out good power, but I probably wouldn’t put you in that position. Where is the saddle relative to the bb? Reach is very short. My guess is that your very forward position is not helping this. If you keep the same saddle position, you need a longer stem at a minimum.
your need a larger bike
.
your need a larger bike
wife will NOT agree LOL
I use this biike for last 4 years, 2 years ago silver at our Masters Nationals
thanks for all your interesting inputs!
to some of your questions:
my saddle height is aprox 2-3 cm higher than on my road bike
power meter reports right, I have 3 different and all match same values as well as Drivo trainer same values
will try to flip the brackets to get my elbow pads closer and make some FRONTAL photos when it is done
as I said, used to be bodybuilder at 110 kg for almost 20 years, have not touched weights for 8-10 years but still HUGE comparing “usual cyclists” lol
nose of saddle is aprox 3 cm from bottom bracket, picture enclosed
Hi,
I am doing TT but as former bodybuilder my friends tell me that my aero is like wardrobe
8% bodyfat but still 86 kg, 191 cm
I need to produce massive watts but still not enough to beat light racers with much less watts…
This is my position I have now and can keep for race.
Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0
Any ideas?
Problem will be frontal are, especially my delts, but I do not think I can change it a lot…
Thanks for ideas or if you point me to somebody who can help.
Jan
Just to give you a comparable reference point, I’m 88kg and 190.5cm and my CdA (measured on the velodrome with Aerocoach and in field testing) is typically circa 0.20-0.21 when at race pace on 350-370w. Like you, I don’t exactly look like a cyclist (I had a long history in strength training and swimming) but it does illustrate you can still drive your numbers down.