I have been wearing the new Clifton 2 for awhile now and while they are comfortable, some friends commented that it looked like I was going to break my ankle due to over pronation. I went to a local running store and had them record me running on a treadmill with various shoes (see picture for a few results). They recommended the Brooks Beast, and while it seems to have fixed the overpronation, it feels like I’m running with concrete shoes on, my training pace for an average run has gone up by around 30 seconds per mile and it seems to be taking more effort to run at that pace (according to heart rate). All of that is anecdotal and could be caused by something else, but in the two weeks I’ve had the new shoes I’ve yet to have a good run and if anything my training volume has been down. My legs also feel dead the next day. I was looking through my emails and found the results from the Fifth Third River Bank Run expo where Brooks analyzed my gait barefoot. They recommend the Ravenna 6, Transcend 2, or the Pure Cadence 4… the guy said he thought the Transcend 2 would be a great shoe for me. I believe the Transcend is the most “helpful” shoe, but even that doesn’t look like it “helps” as much as the Beast.
I have videos of all of the shoes in the picture if that would help as well.
My questions for you guys…
Is overpronation truly a bad thing? If so, is it bad in all circumstances or just extreme examples. Do I truly need to eliminate it?
Can the shoe make as big of a difference in my training paces and comfort?
Thanks for any help you guys can offer… I’m a bit confused at this point and don’t want to be in a shoe that might promote injury, but at the same time I don’t think the Beast is the shoe for me.
For a guidance shoe, I like both the Saucony Guide and Saucony Hurricane ISO. I use the latter as a nice cushy, supportive training shoe. I race in the Guide. I used to use neutral shoes, and ended up with sore ankles last season as well as some other issues. I own Hokas, but don’t really like them… I feel like they’re really stiff.
The reason you are pronating so much is the exaggerated amount of run cross over gait and hip drop that you have. Look at your belt line in the first picture on theleft. Your non support side hip is dropping way down and your support side hip is pushing out laterally to compensate. Your pronation is mostly a hip issue. You need to really work on strengthening your glutes (especially glute medius) and work on getting in a more neutral pelvic position (avoiding anterior pelvic tilt) while running. Because of where you foot is landing, it has to pronate that much to stay flat. More structured shoes will not completely fix this problem. You also need to work on core strength. Your external obliques are likely not strong enough to hold the position of your non support side hip. This is all very common.
Strength training to work core, and glutes (medius and maximus)
Some run drills to reprogram the run gait pattern (run the line drill)
Just Google “The Gait Guys Run Crossover” for more information.
Unfortunately run shoe stores generally know little to nothing about run gait and they usually pick shoes based on what they see from the knees down when most of the action is above the knees. More structured shoes will probably just result in you rotating your foot out more laterally (increased progression angle) to compensate and provide more lateral stability (kickstanding). You can already see it a little in the two pictures to the right. This can cause other issues. Might be OK to go with more structured shoes initially but I would want to work hard on the biomechanics issues as well.
The reason you are pronating so much is the exaggerated amount of run cross over gait and hip drop that you have. Look at your belt line in the first picture on theleft. Your non support side hip is dropping way down and your support side hip is pushing out laterally to compensate. Your pronation is mostly a hip issue. You need to really work on strengthening your glutes (especially glute medius) and work on getting in a more neutral pelvic position (avoiding anterior pelvic tilt) while running. Because of where you foot is landing, it has to pronate that much to stay flat. More structured shoes will not completely fix this problem. You also need to work on core strength. Your external obliques are likely not strong enough to hold the position of your non support side hip. This is all very common.
Strength training to work core, and glutes (medius and maximus)
Some run drills to reprogram the run gait pattern (run the line drill)
Just Google “The Gait Guys Run Crossover” for more information.
Unfortunately run shoe stores generally know little to nothing about run gait and they usually pick shoes based on what they see from the knees down when most of the action is above the knees. More structured shoes will probably just result in you rotating your foot out more laterally (increased progression angle) to compensate and provide more lateral stability (kickstanding). You can already see it a little in the two pictures to the right. This can cause other issues. Might be OK to go with more structured shoes initially but I would want to work hard on the biomechanics issues as well.
Thank you for the amazingly detailed reply. I spent most of yesterday morning watching various Gait Guys videos and you are correct, I definitely have the crossover. The videos from my “gait analysis” are even more pronounced than the photo.
I went for a long run yesterday (10 miles) and tried implementing some of the techniques discussed in the videos you mentioned and can notice a difference… unfortunately my glutes and core fatigue quickly when running correctly… surprise surprise! I need to get my wife to film me walking as it’s surprisingly difficult to perform the drills they discussed, but once I was out running I think I was able to make some positive changes. What seemed to help was trying to run with a wider gait, essentially keeping ankle, knee, hip in line and bringing my drag foot straight through. It felt weird, almost like I was a cowboy who just got off a horse, but I can see how it would be better.
Oh, I also ran in the Clifton’s and my times were back where I would expect them to be… almost 30 seconds per mile faster at the same perceived effort but with temps 20 degrees higher than my previous runs with the Brooks Beast. It seems impossible, but the shoes made a huge difference.
My next step is to begin strengthening my glues and core. Jason over at Strength Running has some good routines that I think I will follow. Lots of lunges, clam shells, one legged squats/deadlifts, etc.
So you were running faster, had no injuries, and like the shoes you were in? Why switch? Because some guy said you have bad form?
I say throw the other shoes on and see if it makes a difference.
My concern was more long term health. The slow motion videos are just painful to watch and I was concerned that while I might not be feeling anything right now, it could compound overtime and create an issue down the road.