Help Prioritize Aero Changes

I’m writing this here in Road Cycling as it is related to Time Trials. NOT triathlon.

I just did a TT at Valley of the Sun Stage race last weekend. It went fairly well. But it got me thinking about upgrades. A friend and I actually had 100% identical watts. He beat me by 1 minute. We are same height, but he weighs less (by say 15lbs.) We both have Cervelo P2C. Both have good wheels, similar depth, etc.

This is where the big differences are:
He has a very clean front end. TriRig setup, aero front brake.
He wore aero glove, sleeves, shoe cover/socks.

He beat me by 40 seconds over 10 miles.

Marginal gains right?

So if it were you, would you just quickly get the aero gear, or would you spend time upgrading/cleaning up the front end?

I’ve been thinking of cleaning up the front end for many years, but couldn’t justify it. This year I’ll be doing a bunch of TTs so could probably swing it.

Aero gear is easy, but just wondering which would give better results (assuming cost between each isn’t the question). Would you do bike upgrade or gear first?

Before everything else it’s the position.

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Professional fit was done previously.

99.9% of fitters may get you in a comfortable/powerful position. Unless they aero test, you are guessing.

Position #1
Helmet and suits #2
the rest are low single digit watt savings

Did you compare your power to your buddie’s ?

Just getting the right incline/reach on the front will gain you way more than a $200 to $3000 cockpit upgrade.

Last week I tested 7 or 8 guys.

Step1 : We used this

to try all kind of reach/incline/pad combinations.

Step 2 : When we found the right one, we moved to this

We found WAY more in step1 than step2

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Thanks for this.

I have a Giro Aerohead2 helmet. Buddy was wearing a POC TT helment (don’t know model). He was wearing a Roadsuit, I was wearing race bibs and jersey (waiting on my race suit). Our avg Watts were identical.

My cockpit is limited to some degree. My bike is a 2008 P2C with the old Profile Design basebar and extensions. Hence why I think that upgrade may give me more ability to make some serious changes. My buddy has the tririg setup and sram force etap shifting with blips.

So quick glance is aero clothing, aero front end. I don’t know that he has done a professional fit.

I’m more concerned about my positioning, and then what marginal gains I should look at. Clothing is easy, bike upgrades will take more work/time but may provide more benefit.

how many watts did you do ?
how many did he do ?

And not just that - was there any elevation or wind? Did you both push same power on all uphills and downhills (or headwinds tailwinds)? Turns? Sprinting out of them exactly alike? Having same avg power for a ride does not mean you both rode it 100% the same, and thus that the only difference was cda.

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238 watts, 241 NP. I averaged about 23.5 mph (so not super fast), still building. Would like to see about 250 watts. Held that for the first 1/2.

So looking at numbers from intervals.icu, my ride eftp was 232, his was 227 I believe. It was pretty flat, and we did have some cross winds on the second half. We were 1 minute apart on the start so pretty much the same conditions.

23.5 on 238w is not great. This is more than an aerobrake and a few cables.

There are lots of details, but I would try to assess your CDA and figure out the big tickets items.

So from the endurance data calculator (yes, making a bunch of assumptions), it estimates Cda at 0.28112 m2. I really have no idea what that means.

It means you should post a pic of your position :wink:

Haha. Yeah, that is what I figured. Looking for the race photos, but can seem to find them. There were some photographers on the course so I know they exist. I’ll post one when I find them. Thanks all. Let’s pause until I can provide proper information.

That .28 is the size of your parachute :slight_smile:
If I browse through FinisherPix, there are a LOT of .28 people out there.

If you were optimized, it could be more around .21. Of course it depends on many things, but .21 / .22 is not an unreasonable target for an AGer.

At 0.21, same conditions you would be at 26MPH.

BTW, Not sure where you are, but Desert Dude is doing an aerocamp in March. That is usually a good first step

Thanks for the feedback. I’m in Colorado. I’m going to try to get some photos from the TT. I’m sure there is a bunch that I can do to my position. I may try to find a 1 mile loop and start doing some testing of positions. Going to the aerocamp is probably not an option as I will be traveling a lot in the coming months due to a medical issue for my wife. But I think I can start at least with my own testing, while continuing to work on my strength and FTP increases.

Take a look at this

I read that last night after reading some other threads on ST. Even passed it along to my buddy. Thanks.

Go to three different bike fitters and you will get three very different interpretations.
Bike fitting is pseudoscience at its worst.

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I would guess that all the equipment changes might get you from a 0.28 to a 0.26 at most. There really is nothing keeping you from a 0.22 or lower other than a crappy position.

If I were doing something on a budget, I would probably start with a new base bar that has stackable risers, easily swapped poles and get some angled elbow cups. Wiggle had those back in the day but you might need to look at EBay. A used Tririg might also be a good option.

Agreed.

What you see over and over is getting from .28 to .25 is relatively easy with position.

Then to .24 with very specific technical improvements is not hard.

Then it becomes incrementally more difficult. But Even at .24, you are now at 25mph on those watts

Of course there are 1001 details to these numbers but that is the broad direction.