Help me understand swim data, SWOLF, improvement metrics

Triathlon Forum
1

I started swimming in January. Adult, no previous swim experience. Practiced religiously 2-4x per week. Learned everything from Total Immersion online course and many different free YouTube videos. Couldn’t make it down and back (25yd) without being completely gassed when I first started.

My pool workouts are now around 2-3k yd. and OWS workouts are 3-4k. I’ve improved tremendously without a coach in a fairly short amount of time. I don’t need any metrics to know that what I’m doing is working. I’ll eventually plateau without video analysis or a coach in the future I’m guessing.

Regardless, I feel like I’m at the point where I’ve crossed the first bridge (having confidence to finish a half or full IM). Now, I need help understanding what to make of my times/metrics and how I should be using available data to cross the next bridge (improving performance).

I usually start with a 400 yd warm-up, which for me, is pretty comfortable around 2:00 to 2:05 per 100. My fastest all out 100 yd in a 25 yd pool, not flipping underwater, haven’t learned that yet, is 1:29.

I typically average 20 to 21 strokes per minute (Garmin, is that one or both arms?) and my SWOLF averages roughly 38-40. I did a quick Google search of “good SWOLF scores,” which showed that anything below 40 is “exceptional, phenomenal, etc.” I know I’m nowhere near whatever that level is, so does that mean SWOLF is even a worthy metric?

To summarize, here are my questions:

  1. Is tracking SWOLF an effective data point for performance improvement?
  2. If not SWOLF, then what should I be looking at for tracking purposes?
  3. I don’t use a HR monitor in the water. Any value in using a HRM for swimming to track HRM vs. effort (similar to running)?
  4. If not SWOLF or another metric, is it as simple as doing occasional pool or open water time trials to gauge improvement, similar to an FTP test?
  5. Anything else I’m missing?

Thank you guys, much appreciated.

2

I started swimming in January. Adult, no previous swim experience. Practiced religiously 2-4x per week. Learned everything from Total Immersion online course and many different free YouTube videos. Couldn’t make it down and back (25yd) without being completely gassed when I first started.

My pool workouts are now around 2-3k yd. and OWS workouts are 3-4k. I’ve improved tremendously without a coach in a fairly short amount of time. I don’t need any metrics to know that what I’m doing is working. I’ll eventually plateau without video analysis or a coach in the future I’m guessing.

Regardless, I feel like I’m at the point where I’ve crossed the first bridge (having confidence to finish a half or full IM). Now, I need help understanding what to make of my times/metrics and how I should be using available data to cross the next bridge (improving performance).

I usually start with a 400 yd warm-up, which for me, is pretty comfortable around 2:00 to 2:05 per 100. My fastest all out 100 yd in a 25 yd pool, not flipping underwater, haven’t learned that yet, is 1:29.

I typically average 20 to 21 strokes per minute (Garmin, is that one or both arms?) and my SWOLF averages roughly 38-40. I did a quick Google search of “good SWOLF scores,” which showed that anything below 40 is “exceptional, phenomenal, etc.” I know I’m nowhere near whatever that level is, so does that mean SWOLF is even a worthy metric?

To summarize, here are my questions:

  1. Is tracking SWOLF an effective data point for performance improvement?
  2. If not SWOLF, then what should I be looking at for tracking purposes?
  3. I don’t use a HR monitor in the water. Any value in using a HRM for swimming to track HRM vs. effort (similar to running)?
  4. If not SWOLF or another metric, is it as simple as doing occasional pool or open water time trials to gauge improvement, similar to an FTP test?
  5. Anything else I’m missing?

Thank you guys, much appreciated.

SWOLF is not a great metric. Pace vs effort is where you want to be, but SWOLF assumes that turnover rate is synonymous with effort, which it isn’t, and that fewer strokes equates with efficiency, which it might, but only to a point.

I’m not a fan of hrm’s in the water, because they’re generally not that great. There are a couple of new devices that I haven’t tried.

To gauge improvement, there are a couple of options. One is the CSS test (see swimsmooth for a reference) or just doing a 1000m time trial. I have a couple of others that we did in my cop swimming days, but they’re ridiculously painful. The css or 1000tt will work fine.

Hope that helps.
J

3

I am not the guy for wisdom or advice. But, I can offer some more reference data. I am probably very much like you, but with the benefit of a few more years of pool time.

About 5 years ago, when got back into the pool after about 20 years, I was about the same as you are now. Now, my cruising pace (warm-up and cool-down for my workouts) is around 1:40/100yd. My last HIM race was 1:39/100yd. My all-in 100 yard is probably around 1:20. Like you, I do not do flip turns.

Your stroke rate looks low. Mine is around 30 now for a pool workout in which I do not do flip turns. In OWS, it will be around 32-34 strokes/minute. And, I also look at strokes per length, according to Garmin. I am around 12 strokes/length. I got most of my speed gains through controlled turnover, not strokes/length.

Someday, I will go to a swimming camp or hire a coach. I suspect that my form sucks and that I have done all I can with Youtube.

One of the things that made huge gains for me was changing my workout structure. I used to just get in and swim 3,500 or so yards with a few breaks. Then, I broke that down and I have several sets of 100 yd and 50 yd intervals. I swim less distance today, but I am faster overall.

Edit: Oh yeah, I never look at SWOLF. But, I do like HR in the pool. My watch started doing it for me about a year ago, and it is really cool. I do not use it, but I am curious-- I am putting in about the same effort, based on HR, as I do on a moderate-level bike workout.

4

I will try the CSS this weekend, thank you for your input.

5

I started swimming in January. Adult, no previous swim experience. Practiced religiously 2-4x per week. Learned everything from Total Immersion online course and many different free YouTube videos. Couldn’t make it down and back (25yd) without being completely gassed when I first started.

My pool workouts are now around 2-3k yd. and OWS workouts are 3-4k. I’ve improved tremendously without a coach in a fairly short amount of time. I don’t need any metrics to know that what I’m doing is working. I’ll eventually plateau without video analysis or a coach in the future I’m guessing.

Regardless, I feel like I’m at the point where I’ve crossed the first bridge (having confidence to finish a half or full IM). Now, I need help understanding what to make of my times/metrics and how I should be using available data to cross the next bridge (improving performance).

I usually start with a 400 yd warm-up, which for me, is pretty comfortable around 2:00 to 2:05 per 100. My fastest all out 100 yd in a 25 yd pool, not flipping underwater, haven’t learned that yet, is 1:29.

I typically average 20 to 21 strokes per minute (Garmin, is that one or both arms?) and my SWOLF averages roughly 38-40. I did a quick Google search of “good SWOLF scores,” which showed that anything below 40 is “exceptional, phenomenal, etc.” I know I’m nowhere near whatever that level is, so does that mean SWOLF is even a worthy metric?

To summarize, here are my questions:

  1. Is tracking SWOLF an effective data point for performance improvement?
  2. If not SWOLF, then what should I be looking at for tracking purposes?
  3. I don’t use a HR monitor in the water. Any value in using a HRM for swimming to track HRM vs. effort (similar to running)?
  4. If not SWOLF or another metric, is it as simple as doing occasional pool or open water time trials to gauge improvement, similar to an FTP test?
  5. Anything else I’m missing?

Thank you guys, much appreciated.

OK, so if you are swimming 2:00/100 you are going 0:30 per length and if you are swimming 20 strokes per minute, you are taking 10 strokes per length in that 0:30. So 30 plus 10 gives you your 40 SWOLF. Some people really focus on their strokes per length. Why? Well the better your catch, stroke, body position, etc., the further each stroke will propel you through the water. But there is another way to lower your strokes per length – slow down So to have a stat that doesn’t reward slothfulness you add strk/length plus sec/length. Is this really an important stat? Kinda. Obviously, time per length is the ultimate measure. But as you improve your stroke and make it more efficient you stand a good chance of decreasing stroke per length. So if you make a tweak and stroke/length goes down but time stays the same, you can hope that you’ve made a good change that will reflect itself in faster faster times as you further adapt to the change.

At any rate, SWOLF is probably not a good tool to compare your self to others (just use time for this)-- better to just use it to track your own progress. If you do want to compare with others, make sure you are comparing apples to apples. SWOLF scores will be different depending on the length of the length of the pool (SCY SCM LCM). Also, Garmin counts the number of strokes by your arm wearing the Garmin. Some people count strokes by both arms. To put it in perspective, 40 is not a very good SWOLF for SCY counting strokes only from one arm, but would be world class for LCM both arms.

6

I might sound a bit rude with this, but I think the main metric to track is your pace…and track how that improves.
As others have said, stroke rate is important. I can get down the end of our 50m pool in 30 strokes (both arms) if I want, but that will be painfully slow. There is a nice swimsmooth graph of optimal stroke rates versus pace, depending on your relative arm length to height you will likely find a sweet spot is somewhere between 50-70 strokes per minute.
Heart rate tracking is not yet super main stream for swim workouts, mainly as the devices have not been out there to do it. The new apple watch does a good job, not sure how it compares to the Garmin 945 which also can measure it. I would invest in a Finis Tempo Trainer over something to track heart rate personally.
Swimming is such a technique driven sport that you will plateau unless you can get some individual assessment done. Many coaching systems now offer online analysis where you send the videos in and get feedback and drills, both swimsmooth and effortless swimming now offer this.

7

Yep one point as from others - stroke per length can drive a bad habit if not careful - you can start to over-glide, wringing out the max distance per stroke - but then both be slow, and also start to form other bad habits too.
(Spoken as someone who was guilty as sin over this 10 years ago).

Equally too fast an RPM can get inefficient as you stop getting a good reach/catch and/or cut the stroke short at the back part of it to get a faster turn over.

Its all about what is optimal for you. And there’s no single fixed answer for that. My turn over (SPM) is higher than 5 or 10 years ago. But if I try too hard or try too high a SPM then I get inefficient and the form goes. Finding the sweet spot allows me to swim a whole lot further these days without being tired.

8

I agree that pace is the main metric to use. Swolf is a BS term for people that don’t know any better…probably came from Friel.

Interesting enough that no age group swim coach I’ve talked to uses it with their kids.

Sure 25 yds in 22 seconds with 20 strokes is better than 25 strokes, but 25 yds in 20 seconds with 22 strokes is better even though they have the same score

9

Thank you guys. I think I was coming to the same conclusion that you goes are regarding my slow stroke count.

I think the Total Immersion method is great, but it is certainly teaching people to become functional in the water, not speed demons. In fact, TI teaches a glide at the front of the stroke, which they call “skating.” So I think I’ve actually been trying to glide as a skill, but now I realize it’s pretty much the exact opposite of what I want to be doing in open water races.

Time to invest in that Finnis counter and slowly ramp up my stroke rate I guess!

10

Total Immersion is great to learn how to swim, in fact it’s how I learned.

It’s now time for you to move on.