I’m new to tri’s and am working hard on improving my swim, which is by far my weakest part. Right now I can swim in the pool fairly comfortably with open turns (pushing off the wall) at 2:00 per 100 yards. What would that translate to in a lake? Faster, slower, equal?
Thanks.
You are going to be told to “suck it up princess and swim a lot more” 
fwiw I’m in the same (slow) boat at 1:50-2:00 per 100m. For me that translates generally to 30-31 mins for Oly distance with my last one at 28:30 mainly by starting out wide up front and drafting more than I’ve ever managed before. I think the improvement came from better navigation - so how straight you swim will need to be taken into account.
The initial question to answer is whether or not you’re swimming at this pace full out or relaxed. In a pool I swim about the same pace. This a my relaxed pace. My Ironman swim time is around 1:12 (with a wetsuit, relaxed and drafting when I can). I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised how well you can do in the longer events once you establish some swim fitness.
The only real way to find out is to go out in open water and just do it. Some events like NYC Oly tri in the Hudson River are really, really fast because its point to point with a hugh current ripping your way. Others like Escape From Fort Delaware Oly Tri are really slow because of big wind driven waves and a foul current. On the other hand venues like Mirror Lake (the lake placid IM) are really good because the water is clean and the only waves are the 2,000 people trying to swim over you. This summer I did some one mile ocean swim races on the New Jersey shore. There is one someplace almost every weekend down there and you can get some low cost open water experience with out having to do all that other stuff (biking, and running). Also CGI racing in New Jersey has a free open water swim venue every Thursday all summer. Also try to find a 50 meter pool as that will help a lot. Also do events where the water is cool enough to wear a wet suit, as that will also help you go faster. Don’t drown (at least two did this year), Tim
Yes, I know I’m slow. I literally only started swimming this year, so I think I’m doing pretty well.
I’ll be swimming in a lake, which is hopefully calm.
The swim is .5 miles.
Two people drowned? Where? I did a race early this year and the swim was in the ocean off the Jersey shore. I was not ready for an ocean swim and thought about asking one of the rowers for help, but I made it. A month ago I did another tri in a lake and it was MUCH better.
2:00 / 100 is a fairly relaxed pace, so long as I breath correctly.
Just wondering in general if I should expect to go slower or faster?
Try something like this.
Push off the wall. swim two strokes. Close your eyes. Open them as soon as you hit a lane line or count ten strokes. Where are you in the lane.
Do this 10 times.
I can swim continuous 2:10 hundreds all day long in a pool but my sighting and navigation in OW just sucks. My last .9 mile lake swim I did 3:15 hundreds. The contributing factors for me are a lack of flexibility. When I raise my head to sight, it pushes my rearend down. Being near sighted without glasses makes seeing the markers tough. Being a slow swimmer makes drafting a rare occurrence for me. With my eyes closed, I can’t get halfway down the pool without running into a lane line.
Slower.
You’ll be sighting (AKA meandering) and inundated with waves. People will tell you that your wetsuit will help or that drafting will make a difference, but at your speed, it really won’t. I mean you no offense, but them’s the facts. They will help slightly, but not enough to overcome the environmental disadvantages of an open water swim vs. a pool swim.
I think what you’re trying to get at is an estimate for your time. That’s hard to discern without knowing your level of fitness. Can you hold a 2:00 pace for 1600 yds? If so, then we can assume you won’t be dropping off at the end of 800 yds. In that case, your pace for a half mile would be approximately 16:00. My multiplier for pool-to-lake conversions is about 1.13 (low is 1.08, high is 1.18). That would put your open water time at around 18:05 (between about 17:17 and 18:53). Not terrible, but not competitive, either.
As a former college swimmer, the number one thing I notice that drags down triathletes is their ridiculous body positioning. It’s amazing that a breed of individuals so obsessed with aerodynamics on the bike are so unaware of its effects in a fluid with exponentially more drag resistance. Unlike what 95% of the triathletes out there will tell you (they’re all pretty terrible swimmers, btw), you’re better off learning to maintain a good profile in the water than you are thrashing around to attain “swim fitness”. Fitness is fitness. The trick to swimming is technique, and no amount of thrashing is going to teach you that. It takes patience and the willpower to go slow, but do things right.
If you can keep your body in a line parallel with the top of the water, the seconds will slide off your pool pace. Tuck in your chin, learn to trust your breathing (don’t fling your head to get air… it’ll be in the same place it was last you breathed), and for God’s sake keep your ass on the surface. Exhale into the water instead of when you breathe. Rotate. Keep your knees straight. Press down with your chest. Imagine your body is a kayak and maintain your body position accordingly. It’s a lot to remember, but if you take things one at a time, you’ll improve vast amounts in only a few months to a year.
Focusing on those pointers alone can get your pace down to 1:25 or 1:30 with practice. Further with real swim instruction (i.e. from a swimmer or swim coach).
I disagree about the wetsuit- I don’t know why it wouldn’t help him. Because of this: the number one thing I notice that drags down triathletes is their ridiculous body positioning.
So I say if you wear a wetsuit, that’ll probably help. The lack of walls to push off will hurt. The opportunity to draft will help, if he takes advantage of it.The lack of lane lines will hurt, because he probably won’t swim entirely straight. Being in open water in a crowd might hurt, because of the freakout factor. Swimming in a triathlon might hurt or help, because what are the odds the distance is measured correctly?
In short, no way to say for sure.
As I said, a wetsuit might help (as might drafting), but not in any significant way. If he’s swimming with his head up and his chest is pounding waves, then the most bouyant wetsuit in the world won’t make him any faster.
Where a wetsuit might shave seconds off his mile time, proper positioning will definitely shave minutes.
As I said, a wetsuit might help (as might drafting), but not in any significant way. If he’s swimming with his head up and his chest is pounding waves
If he said he swims like that, I missed it. He’s slow, he’s not doing the dog paddle.
I bet that a wetsuit shaves close to ten seconds/100 off his time, conservatively.
Most triathletes swim that way and don’t know it. That he didn’t say so doesn’t mean he doesn’t swim with his head up. It’s a natural response to orient your eyes to the horizon, lift your head and drop your butt when you swim. Every new swimmer does it. Every one.
I’ve been teaching and training as a competitive swimmer for almost two decades and can honestly say that body position, whether conscious or not, is the primary failing of most triathletes. As much as you’d like to think that $700 wetsuit will cut 10 seconds off your 100 pace, I can’t say that I’ve seen that level of improvement. Because the OP is pretty slow, any improvement helps, but I think if he wanted to prioritize things, he’d be wise to put proper body position ahead of a wetsuit (not that they’re mutually exclusive).
Yes, I know I’m slow. I literally only started swimming this year, so I think I’m doing pretty well.
I’ll be swimming in a lake, which is hopefully calm.
The swim is .5 miles.
Two people drowned? Where? I did a race early this year and the swim was in the ocean off the Jersey shore. I was not ready for an ocean swim and thought about asking one of the rowers for help, but I made it. A month ago I did another tri in a lake and it was MUCH better.
2:00 / 100 is a fairly relaxed pace, so long as I breath correctly.
Just wondering in general if I should expect to go slower or faster?
Which triathlon are you doing? Skylands? Let us know which race, as there’s a good chance that someone here knows the venue.
If you have a wetsuit that fits well and 2:00/100yds is your relaxed pace, I don’t care what your body position is: the wetsuit will enable less of your body to be in the water, so you will be faster. Having said that, there’s little chance of the swim being the actual advertised distance, so comparisons between open water and pool swims are pretty useless.
As much as you’d like to think that $700 wetsuit will cut 10 seconds off your 100 pace, I can’t say that I’ve seen that level of improvement.
That’s because you haven’t looked very hard. There have been a number of threads here that verified that even the best triathlon swimmers (including those who swam in college, but excluding John Kenny gain on the order of :08-:10/100yds with a quality wetsuit that fits. My personal experience in August was doing 2x200scy on 3:00 on a Monday without a wetsuit, holding 2:28; Wednesday with my brand new wetsuit (first time in the water with it) I repeated that holding 2:09 and 2:10.
And it was only $400, including shipping.
Slower.
You’ll be sighting (AKA meandering) and inundated with waves. People will tell you that your wetsuit will help or that drafting will make a difference, but at your speed, it really won’t. I mean you no offense, but them’s the facts. They will help slightly, but not enough to overcome the environmental disadvantages of an open water swim vs. a pool swim.
I think what you’re trying to get at is an estimate for your time. That’s hard to discern without knowing your level of fitness. Can you hold a 2:00 pace for 1600 yds? If so, then we can assume you won’t be dropping off at the end of 800 yds. In that case, your pace for a half mile would be approximately 16:00. My multiplier for pool-to-lake conversions is about 1.13 (low is 1.08, high is 1.18). That would put your open water time at around 18:05 (between about 17:17 and 18:53). Not terrible, but not competitive, either.
As a former college swimmer, the number one thing I notice that drags down triathletes is their ridiculous body positioning. It’s amazing that a breed of individuals so obsessed with aerodynamics on the bike are so unaware of its effects in a fluid with exponentially more drag resistance. Unlike what 95% of the triathletes out there will tell you (they’re all pretty terrible swimmers, btw), you’re better off learning to maintain a good profile in the water than you are thrashing around to attain “swim fitness”. Fitness is fitness. The trick to swimming is technique, and no amount of thrashing is going to teach you that. It takes patience and the willpower to go slow, but do things right.
If you can keep your body in a line parallel with the top of the water, the seconds will slide off your pool pace. Tuck in your chin, learn to trust your breathing (don’t fling your head to get air… it’ll be in the same place it was last you breathed), and for God’s sake keep your ass on the surface. Exhale into the water instead of when you breathe. Rotate. Keep your knees straight. Press down with your chest. Imagine your body is a kayak and maintain your body position accordingly. It’s a lot to remember, but if you take things one at a time, you’ll improve vast amounts in only a few months to a year.
Focusing on those pointers alone can get your pace down to 1:25 or 1:30 with practice. Further with real swim instruction (i.e. from a swimmer or swim coach).
Thanks for the great tips. This is exactly what I was looking for. I can hold 2:00 for 1600 in the pool sometimes. Sometimes I slip a bit if I get too anxious about my breathing. We’ll have to see how that translates to the open water. Last race I did I managed to stay relaxed and did OK (but real slow). This time I’m hoping to go just a bit faster, but mostly to keep my heartrate reasonable. Not drowning is also a big goal.
Which triathlon are you doing? Skylands? Let us know which race, as there’s a good chance that someone here knows the venue.
If you have a wetsuit that fits well and 2:00/100yds is your relaxed pace, I don’t care what your body position is: the wetsuit will enable less of your body to be in the water, so you will be faster. Having said that, there’s little chance of the swim being the actual advertised distance, so comparisons between open water and pool swims are pretty useless.
Which triathlon are you doing? Skylands? Let us know which race, as there’s a good chance that someone here knows the venue.
If you have a wetsuit that fits well and 2:00/100yds is your relaxed pace, I don’t care what your body position is: the wetsuit will enable less of your body to be in the water, so you will be faster. Having said that, there’s little chance of the swim being the actual advertised distance, so comparisons between open water and pool swims are pretty useless.
I know my posts always bear repeating, but you might want to add some content.
As I said, a wetsuit might help (as might drafting), but not in any significant way. If he’s swimming with his head up and his chest is pounding waves
If he said he swims like that, I missed it. He’s slow, he’s not doing the dog paddle.
I bet that a wetsuit shaves close to ten seconds/100 off his time, conservatively.
Hey, I know I’m slow, but doggie paddle. I’m not that bad . . .
Admittedly, I’m relatively new to triathlons. I haven’t personally experienced a significant improvement in pace due to a wetsuit, however. Perhaps this is because that’s a lot harder at a 1:10 pace than 2:00, though.
Does it help? Yes. I said so in my first post.
I was merely speaking to priorities. I know that body position is what keeps good swimmers from being great, and triathletes are especially afflicted with ugly attack angles.
When I started training with Ben Collins again, we spent three weeks just working on his technique. His swim times dropped precipitously and he had way more energy heading into transition.
Once again, to be clear, I’m not arguing against a wetsuilt. I’m arguing that body position deserves a higher priority for the greater eventual benefits it will impart.
Thanks for the great tips. This is exactly what I was looking for. I can hold 2:00 for 1600 in the pool sometimes. Sometimes I slip a bit if I get too anxious about my breathing. We’ll have to see how that translates to the open water. Last race I did I managed to stay relaxed and did OK (but real slow). This time I’m hoping to go just a bit faster, but mostly to keep my heartrate reasonable. Not drowning is also a big goal.
Glad to be of service
Drowning won’t be an issue as long as you maintain your composure. Meditate (or if that’s not your thing, just relax) during the race. Focus on keeping your breathing long and even. Keep your strokes fluid. Don’t panic if you inhale a little water. Exhale.
And, of course, have fun.
Which triathlon are you doing? Skylands? Let us know which race, as there’s a good chance that someone here knows the venue.
If you have a wetsuit that fits well and 2:00/100yds is your relaxed pace, I don’t care what your body position is: the wetsuit will enable less of your body to be in the water, so you will be faster. Having said that, there’s little chance of the swim being the actual advertised distance, so comparisons between open water and pool swims are pretty useless.
I know my posts always bear repeating, but you might want to add some content.
Classic