Help me find new shoes

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m still on my eternal quest to find the perfect pair of running shoes and looking for some outside opinions. Basics: I’m 185 lbs, size 12, slightly narrow, mild overpronation.

The problem I always run into is foot ‘slap’. As my foot rolls onto the ball, some shoes cause it to slap the pavement instead of roll naturally. I don’t have a terrible heel strike and it seems independent of cadence. The little reading I’ve done seems to say the slap is because of a stiff heel?

For years I ran in variations of Asics GT 2000. They came in B width, had enough cushion and were comfortable enough. There was a mild amount of slap in my stride but it never was so bad that I couldn’t run longer distances. I always felt like they didn’t have a lot of support for a stability shoe, so when they stopped coming in narrow widths I moved on.

Years ago I tried a pair of Nike Structure running shoes, back when they had the Bowerman line. The foot slap was terrible and immediately I went back to GTs.

Recently I tried a New Balance 1340. They had plenty of support, but the slap on the pavement was unbearable. Someone at the shoe store told me it was because of high drop of the 1340 so I started looking at lower heel drop shoes.

Next up were Saucony Hurricanes. Plenty of support, no pronounced slap and felt good for the first few strides. Unfortunately they attacked my Achilles and I would get tendinitis within a couple days of running in them.

So I went into the shoe store and started from scratch. I think I tried on a dozen shoes in one evening and came away loving On Cloudflows, which have a low drop. My stride had never felt more natural and there was zero foot slap. I’m sure some of that is due to the light weight, but something about the structure of the shoe works well for me too. They didn’t offer a lot of support so I usually use blue Superfeet inserts, but otherwise they became my go to shoe. The problem I’m having is holes start to wear in the heel after 100 miles. Its happened on multiple shoes now, so not just a one time problem, and at $150 a pop I’m sure there are better values out there.

Thinking low drop had solved my issue, I ordered a pair of NB Vongos, which have plenty of cushion and support on a 4mm drop. Within a mile of my first run in them the aggressive slap from the 1340s was back. I haven’t touched them since.

So whats so special about Cloudflows? Should I just bite the bullet and replace them every month as they wear? Look at Cloudflyers? Is there something else that causes foot slap?

2

Check out Skechers Go Run Ride. They’ve always been an ugly shoe, and IMO the new models aren’t as good as the originals, but they’re still good shoes and they’re in my lineup. They’re kinda rockered, so that might help with your “foot slap” issue.

3

Hello,

Not sure I understand your foot strike (english not my natural langage) : are you heel striking a lot ?
Or more mid foot strike ?

If you prefer mid drop (5mm), probably more mid foot strike ?

Regarding On Running :
last year I tested several shoes with accelerometer (RunScribe). Results were interesting.
The best result on “damping effect” were the On CloudSurfer, even better than the Vaporfly 4%, despite VF much better cushion.
In fact, it seems the “clouds” are dampening very efficiently the “horizontal speed”, as they move longitudinally a bit, what other shoes soles don’t do.

So, if your heel touch ground with some horizontal speed, the cloud help braking it, instead of directly creating torque wich could “slap” the rest of the sole (so probably mid foot or front foot) to the ground.

Possibly your problem is that your heel is having too much horizontal speed (going forward) when touching the ground.
Normal shoes : no horizontal speed absorption, so slap front foot
On “cloud” : some damping of this horizontal speed, less torque on the sole, so less slap, plus effect reduced from less drop (compared to 10 or 12mm drop, your heel go later to the ground)

In both cases, this “heel speed at the touch point” is “braking” you, and could probably create ankle issues ?

You might probably try to reduce this effect by pushing the foot less in front (less overstride, less heel strike).
Working this you could move to reduced drop (around 5mm) with good forefoot cushion shoes, such as Skechers Ride 7 (more efficient) or Hoka Clifton 5 (more stable for pronator - me), or others on the same principles.

Don’t know if this make sense to you. There is some biomechanics pro here who could comment on my interpretation.
Always been “puzzled” by the Runscibe results of the On CloudSurfer vs other shoes, given the lack of cushion, but still showing these dampening effects on the measurement. Horizontal speed effet ?

4

Check out Skechers Go Run Ride. They’ve always been an ugly shoe, and IMO the new models aren’t as good as the originals, but they’re still good shoes and they’re in my lineup. They’re kinda rockered, so that might help with your “foot slap” issue.

I’ve been side eyeing the Skechers Forza for a while but haven’t had a chance to try them on yet. It looks like most of the Skechers line has a good rocker. Do you specifically like the Rides?

5

Check out Skechers Go Run Ride. They’ve always been an ugly shoe, and IMO the new models aren’t as good as the originals, but they’re still good shoes and they’re in my lineup. They’re kinda rockered, so that might help with your “foot slap” issue.

I’ve been side eyeing the Skechers Forza for a while but haven’t had a chance to try them on yet. It looks like most of the Skechers line has a good rocker. Do you specifically like the Rides?

I’ve only ever used the Ride and the Go Run Ultra. I definitely like both (Ultra is rockered too and super soft, yet responsive), but I don’t like the newest version of the Ride as much as previous versions.

6

Hello,

Not sure I understand your foot strike (english not my natural langage) : are you heel striking a lot ?
Or more mid foot strike ?

If you prefer mid drop (5mm), probably more mid foot strike ?

I have a mild heel strike, but the impact isn’t so hard that I would want to modify my stride for that issue alone.

…
In fact, it seems the “clouds” are dampening very efficiently the “horizontal speed”, as they move longitudinally a bit, what other shoes soles don’t do.

So, if your heel touch ground with some horizontal speed, the cloud help braking it, instead of directly creating torque wich could “slap” the rest of the sole (so probably mid foot or front foot) to the ground.

Interesting, I hadn’t considered the forces in that direction.

Possibly your problem is that your heel is having too much horizontal speed (going forward) when touching the ground.
Normal shoes : no horizontal speed absorption, so slap front foot
On “cloud” : some damping of this horizontal speed, less torque on the sole, so less slap, plus effect reduced from less drop (compared to 10 or 12mm drop, your heel go later to the ground)

In both cases, this “heel speed at the touch point” is “braking” you, and could probably create ankle issues ?

Thats a good point. So perhaps the stride correction is not so much heel vs midfoot as ‘placing’ my foot on the ground rather than letting the foot decelerate as it hits the ground.

I have had foot/ankle issues over the year that could theoretically have been from higher horizontal strike speeds.

7

Exactly

If you run at, for exemple, 12km/h, your foot ideally contact the ground going approx. 12km/h backward compared to your center of gravity. If it goes much less, then the horizontal forces at the impact are high.
“Clouds” are good at cushioning these forces (possibly better than any other shoes) still these forces are counter-productive, braking you, and adding to the damaging shocks.

I got similar issues at the beginning and solved them with following “trick” : when pushing behind on right foot, I concentrated in getting left knee up and forward, not left foot forward.

Being concentrated on my knee, I do not push the foot forward, so it does come backwardd sooner and faster, reducing its speed at ground contact.
Also had 3 other consequences :

  1. my stride slightly shortened on the front side, and my foot strike moved a bit more mid-foot (going lower drop, more forefoot cushion shoes)
  2. cadence went up to more efficient rhythms
  3. ankle and knee issues disppeared
8

I’ve always struggled with knee drive due to an old knee injury that causes slightly limited left knee flexion. But I like the way you put it about neutralizing horizontal forces, I’ll try focusing on that.

9

Get the Skechers GORun Ride 7. Probably half a size smaller than your last pair (but try first if possible).
Stay away from anything with more than 5mm drop and stabilisation/rollbars/medial posts.

Your feet will thank you.

10

I think you answered your question. The Cloud Flow is unique in that the midsole is sectioned off into small segments. Those segments basically allow your foot to roll naturally. Nike Free does the same thing. I say you stick to the cloud flow and replace them frequently. Don’t expect other On shoes to work the same.

11

I totally understand wanting to eliminate the “slap”. I had a pair of Asics DS Trainers, and for whatever reason, my running style made those things slap like crazy. I had to retire them early.

The Brooks Pure Cadence is a low drop, mid foot centric shoe with light stability. I keep a pair of these in my rotation at all times. It’s one of the most quiet shoes I use. I haven’t tried the latest iteration of this shoe (which looks very different than previous versions). Hopefully they didn’t change it too much.

(My stat’s: ~165-170Lb, mild pronation)

12

So fwiw, I think the slapping problem came from overly stiff stability shoes. I tried on a bunch more shoes and it seems pretty clear at this point that stability features are the problem. I settled on Nike Pegasus 35s and my stride has never felt better. So far I’ve been injury free even though I get a touch of ankle instability.

Thanks everyone for the input. Ironically I should have just started with a regular set of trainers and wouldn’t have been through all this trouble.