Help me choose my setup (Cervelo vs BMC vs Felt, and wheelset choice)

Triathlon Forum
1

Hi ST,

I am currently assessing several options for a tri bike setup. For consistency with my road bike, I would like to have disc brakes and a Sram groupset. Making a bike fit next week to determine which works the best for me but wanted to get some opinions beforehand. Below are the shortlisted options:

  • Cervélo P5 Disc, custom built with Sram AXS (probably 1x, would you go Force or Red?)
  • Cervélo P-Series, Sram Force AXS (1x)
  • BMC Timemachine 01 Disc, Sram Force AXS (2x)
  • Felt IA Advanced Disc, Sram Force AXS (2x)

I am quite tempted with a 1x setup but that’s not the most important criteria on my list. I want to have a decent storage capacity for 70.3 events, ease to travel with the bike.

Wheels: the idea was to use my current pair of Enve 5.6. I have however found that my CK hubs (Gen1) are not compatible with Sram XDR. So here again several options:

  • swap the rear hub for a Gen2 (probably an extra $700)
  • sell the Enves and use stock wheels coming with the new bike
  • sell both Enves and stock wheels and get something else

Leaning towards the first option but would like to hear what you guys would do.

Looking forward to read what you would choose, or what you have chosen if my options were also on your shortlist.

Thanks!!

2

OK, I’ll go. I just went P5d 2 x Red AXS and LOVE it. Zipp 302 for training and Zipp 858 + Super 9 disc. Love it all. a bit of sticker shock!

3

Cheers! Have you hesitated with Force AXS or 1x?

What made you go for the P5d in case you had similar criteria’s as mine?

4

I have a Felt IA, and I love it. But, out of that list of four, the P5 Disc is my hands-down, no-brianer. It is probably the fastest of that list-- realistically, the only thing potentially faster is a P3X or P5X.

For wheels, I would sell everything and get something else. I train and race on a 9/disc combo, and that is what I would want on a best-in-class bike.

5

I said Red 2 x

Got P5d b/c I loved my P5 . . . seemed natural

6

I was choosing between the P5d and the BMC TM01 disc. Ended up ordering the BMC,
mainly because I was able to get a good deal on that one. Also, I have the BMC TM disc road bike as well, so they will make a nice couple in the basement. 😀

I will get the bike any day now, so I can’t review the bike as such yet. Anyway, I think both are great bikes and that you won’t go wrong on either. I do like the possibility to move the seat post on the BMC however. It’s a pretty cool feature.

7

I have a Felt IA, and I love it. But, out of that list of four, the P5 Disc is my hands-down, no-brianer. It is probably the fastest of that list-- realistically, the only thing potentially faster is a P3X or P5X.

For wheels, I would sell everything and get something else. I train and race on a 9/disc combo, and that is what I would want on a best-in-class bike.

That’s what I’ve read on other ST threads - is there a study or review that compares the P5D with the TM01D? Would be really interested by such a thing

8

I was choosing between the P5d and the BMC TM01 disc. Ended up ordering the BMC,
mainly because I was able to get a good deal on that one. Also, I have the BMC TM disc road bike as well, so they will make a nice couple in the basement. 😀

I will get the bike any day now, so I can’t review the bike as such yet. Anyway, I think both are great bikes and that you won’t go wrong on either. I do like the possibility to move the seat post on the BMC however. It’s a pretty cool feature.

Congrats then!! Could you briefly tell me what advantages and backdraws each of the P5D and TM01 disc had in your opinion? (setting aside the deal you managed to get)

9

I have not seen anything published, comparative or otherwise, about the new TM01 Disc. It seems like the market has gotten away from competitive aero comparisons over the past few years.

10

Interesting - it seems to be commonly accepted that the P5D is the fastest bike out there, is that also based on people’s experience or is there an aero comparison?

Thanks

11

This is Cervelo’s published comparison of the old and new P5.

http://blob:https://forum.slowtwitch.com/767d1370-769b-4485-bbab-78d2d9aa9e9b
https://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/images/6/178836-largest_newP5_drag_chart.png

12

I was choosing between the P5d and the BMC TM01 disc. Ended up ordering the BMC,
mainly because I was able to get a good deal on that one. Also, I have the BMC TM disc road bike as well, so they will make a nice couple in the basement. 😀

I will get the bike any day now, so I can’t review the bike as such yet. Anyway, I think both are great bikes and that you won’t go wrong on either. I do like the possibility to move the seat post on the BMC however. It’s a pretty cool feature.

Congrats then!! Could you briefly tell me what advantages and backdraws each of the P5D and TM01 disc had in your opinion? (setting aside the deal you managed to get)

Thanks! Only drawback is that I live in Sweden and won’t be able to ride it outdoors for approximately six months…

Well, starting out I was looking for a disc break TT bike as my intention is to be able to swap wheels between the road and TT bike. I have connections to Cervelo and BMC through work, which is one main reason I was looking that direction. Also, both brands apparently know how to make fast bikes. The P5d is proven by some really good results from Sunweb and several triathletes. And even if the pro cyclists and triathletes are not riding the disc brake version of the TM (yet), I am confident that BMC will not release a slow bike. They have too much knowledge and prestige to screw that up, in my opinion.

As it happened I was able to get a good deal on the BMC, but would have been equally happy with the P5d. What I do like about the BMC is the possibility to put the seat post in “triathlon mode” and have a storage box in the rear. Also, there are two different cockpits, one that is UCI compliant (and likely faster as it is lower) and one triathlon cockpit (v shaped). I also think I read somewhere that the cockpit should be easy to “fold” for packing in a bike bag.

As mentioned, I have a BMC TMR and absolutely love the bike, why I feel confident that the TM will be awesome as well. But, as also mentioned, I don’t think you can go wrong on either bike and think which one you choose is a matter of personal preferences rather than bike performance.

13

May I suggest the Parlee TTiR as another option?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49020963836_fbec107c55_c.jpg

I’m coming from the rim-brake version of the BMC TM01. Awesome bike but the Parlee is phenomenal and a dramatic upgrade.

  • Not sure if it is the frame or the disc wheels/axles that make the bike so much more stiff, but the front/rear balance and responsiveness of this bike is amazing. It feels completely rigid and connected from front to rear. There is no lost energy.
    It rides as responsively as a climbing road bike. But is also dead stable and fast in the aerobars.
  • There is a short, steep hill climb segment I do. Riding the Parlee I crushed my PR vs my road Cervelo S3. The Parlee is 20+ pounds and my Cervelo is 14. How is this possible?
  • Another gradual climb with sweeping turns, again, crushed my PR. On a tri bike!

The Parlee TTiR was the first mainstream tri bike to embrace disc wheels and the engineering is really thoughtful. The pricing is probably lower than you would expect (though you have to go through an authorized dealer).

I went SRAM Force for the base configuration which includes awesome Hed Ardennes “training wheels” with Hed Vanquish 6/8’s for race wheels. Force doesn’t have a 50x37 front so I upgraded to Red for that as well as the rear cassette for the race wheels.

If you train in a place that has hills and you do hilly races, I would recommend this bike. Also, the 2x front end. The weight savings of the 1x is super marginal and the gearing limitations will likely leave you frustrated.
Regarding wheel choice, personally I like a super stable front wheel; just raced with the Hed 6/8’s on a really windy/gusty course and it was terrifying. I wish I got the Hed 4 instead of the 6 in front. Point being, maybe keep the front Enve?

14

I have not seen anything published, comparative or otherwise, about the new TM01 Disc. It seems like the market has gotten away from competitive aero comparisons over the past few years.

I think this silence says a lot about what we already know… that the newer bikes are generally not faster, maybe even slower… as independent testing is showing with aero road disc bikes in many cases. Modern aero changes are just there to nullify or minimize losses from our thirst for wider tires/rims (more surface area), disc brakes (more spokes, larger hubs, the discs), etc. Never mind weight increases.

Peak aero is here, and there is no free lunch at this point in time. The fastest tri bike is maybe 10w faster than a cheap 10yo tt bike at very high speeds (30mph, as per the peak aero slowtwitch article). Maybe 3-4w faster than a solid modern bike. Wrinkles in a speed suit are worth more. So back to the old cliche… start with fit.

I have a 2020 felt ia disc with force etap. I chose it due to lbs support, loving the carbon/silhouette, and because i figured as a lower power rider in a windy area, i would see higher yaws, and thus benefit from the sailing effect. The problem is that it made me so aero that i could hold 45km/hr for far longer than i ever expected to. But on slower rides, and with the wind, i was shocked how well it stood up to gusts and crosswinds. We know deeper airfoils keep air attached longer, and it holds true in the constantly changing winds of reality. I swear that my road bike with shallower 56mm rims gets blown around more than my ia with 58/62.

Light it is not, but fast it is, and i love the shifting. The front is a good starting place as it is among the most adjustable options… period… and about as light as the best, and pretty aero also. I got a low stack, high hands mantis position easily out of the box.

15

i was shocked how well it stood up to gusts and crosswinds…I swear that my road bike with shallower 56mm rims gets blown around more than my ia with 58/62.This is because Jim Felt is a freakin’ genius and he intentionally designed the bike to behave this way. It is magic. I can get hit by a 30 MPH gust, and I feel practically nothing on my Felt IA with a rear disc and 90mm front.

16

I “upgraded” from a BMC TM01 (rim) to a P3X. I liked the BMC, great looking bike too, but for me the P3X (had to get around to the beam bike idea, but love t now) was significantly more comfortable and rode like a road bike. I was leaning towards the P5d too, but got a great deal on the P3X and couldn’t be happier.

17

Do you have fit coordinates? Its easiest to prescribe a setup when you know where you want to be aboard the bike. If you need a long and low bike (or shorter and taller) based on your body and riding position then the fastest bike in the world will be made slower if you can’t get into the right position.

18

This is Cervelo’s published comparison of the old and new P5.

http://blob:https://forum.slowtwitch.com/767d1370-769b-4485-bbab-78d2d9aa9e9b
https://www.slowtwitch.com/articles/images/6/178836-largest_newP5_drag_chart.png

To be very honest, I’m not sure how to interpret this graph. Seems like they both had their strength at different angles but what else can be deducted from that?

19

I was choosing between the P5d and the BMC TM01 disc. Ended up ordering the BMC,
mainly because I was able to get a good deal on that one. Also, I have the BMC TM disc road bike as well, so they will make a nice couple in the basement. 😀

I will get the bike any day now, so I can’t review the bike as such yet. Anyway, I think both are great bikes and that you won’t go wrong on either. I do like the possibility to move the seat post on the BMC however. It’s a pretty cool feature.

Congrats then!! Could you briefly tell me what advantages and backdraws each of the P5D and TM01 disc had in your opinion? (setting aside the deal you managed to get)

Thanks! Only drawback is that I live in Sweden and won’t be able to ride it outdoors for approximately six months…

Well, starting out I was looking for a disc break TT bike as my intention is to be able to swap wheels between the road and TT bike. I have connections to Cervelo and BMC through work, which is one main reason I was looking that direction. Also, both brands apparently know how to make fast bikes. The P5d is proven by some really good results from Sunweb and several triathletes. And even if the pro cyclists and triathletes are not riding the disc brake version of the TM (yet), I am confident that BMC will not release a slow bike. They have too much knowledge and prestige to screw that up, in my opinion.

As it happened I was able to get a good deal on the BMC, but would have been equally happy with the P5d. What I do like about the BMC is the possibility to put the seat post in “triathlon mode” and have a storage box in the rear. Also, there are two different cockpits, one that is UCI compliant (and likely faster as it is lower) and one triathlon cockpit (v shaped). I also think I read somewhere that the cockpit should be easy to “fold” for packing in a bike bag.

As mentioned, I have a BMC TMR and absolutely love the bike, why I feel confident that the TM will be awesome as well. But, as also mentioned, I don’t think you can go wrong on either bike and think which one you choose is a matter of personal preferences rather than bike performance.

No you are totally right, I do believe that both bikes are great. Simply checking which one works best for my use :wink:

Storage capacity seems indeed to be a bit in favor of the TM01disc - can anyone confirm? Correct me if I’m wrong but on the P5d, you cannot have a storage “draft” box in the rear?

Also you are mentioning the foldable cockpit of the TM01, I haven’t heard of that but would be interested to hear people’s travel experiences with both bikes!

Thanks

20

Looks great!! I must admit that it was not on my list but your description might make me want to do some research about it :slight_smile:

What do you mean by hilly course? We are talking on the 70.3 distance - I’m planning for races with 700/800m (approx. 2200/2500ft) of vertical gain. According to you, would that be an issue with the 1x?

When you are on that 50t crankset, which speeds are you using most on the cassette? I mean for instance 50x10 is really a lot? (Asking since I’m also wondering what I would get in case of a 1x setup)

Thanks