Help me analyze a bad race (your chance to say HTFU)

Triathlon Forum
1

So, I had a pretty terrible race this last weekend. DFL in division and I’m trying to figure out why it was SOOOO bad. This post will be long an involved but if you have any input I would appreciate it.

Some background:

Male 39 years, 275lbs down from 310 when I started exercising last year.
I have good equipment, including a powertap that I recently started using (3 months or so)

I consider my strengths to be the swim and the bike while running is a complete nightmare for me.

6 total triathlons, 5 sprints and 1 oly.

I seem to always have big issues on the run. In training when I just run I can do 2-3 miles in the 11min per mile range, however, in a tri that number goes way up to around 13-14 min per mile. I’m not sure if you would consider this to be “blowing up” but it seems like it to me.

So the question is: What are some strategies towards improving the run time? I’m pretty good on the swim, fair on the bike but atrocious on the run. So, should I cut back on the bike to do better on the run?

Data:

Last race was a sprint - 600 yd swim in 13:52 - Bike was 14.8 in 53:08 (16.7) and 5k run was 45:30 (14.6 min/mi)
Course was very hilly (in my experience)

Swim was ok ( i usually do better but I hadn’t trained the swim in a bit so I was not great)
T1 was fine if a little slow
Bike started off ok but quickly got difficult with the large number of hills. I usually avg 19-20ish on a flat course so 16.7 was a little disappointing. I was tired coming to t2 but not completely wrung out.
The run start was awful, legs felt dead and I had to walk pretty soon after leaving t1. The course was hilly and I’m obviously a big guy so that wasn’t helping. In any case, I walked a good portion of the run but was able to sprint at the end.

I never felt like i bonked and I didn’t cramp. I was just slow.

Power numbers:

Estimated FTP is 190 watts
Avg watts for the ride in this race 180
Normalized power for the race 230 watts
Variability index for the ride 1.26 (hilly)
Training Stress Score 129.9
Intensity Factor 1.213
Cadence was 89 avg
No Heartrate data

My questions are as follows:

  1. Based on the IF for the race, Did I just go too hard on the bike? Is it worthwhile to slow the bike down to do better on the run? I’m obviously losing the most time on the run so I could finish better overall if I could improve it at the cost of the others. If so, how much do I pull back? A percentage of FTP?

  2. It’s look like my TSS and IF are getting to be regularly over 100/1.0 - This suggests to me that I need to retest as I have improved. Agree that ftp might be estimated low?

  3. Is it possible I’m not eating enough? I try to take in at least 200 cal/hr. I would think this is plenty for a sprint. Do you think Caffeine would help on the run leg?

  4. Since hills are such a debilitating factor, any specific strategies you could suggest to minimize time loss? And yes, I know losing weight would be the best thing I could do and I’m working on that…

  5. What are some of the power strategies you guys use for sprints and olys?

Thanks for reading and for any help and advice you might offer.

Jason

2

For starters, you seem to have gone too hard on the bike. What was your rolling average… steadily dropping? And the data indicates that your FTP is higher than you think… but assuming that you use your PM for pacing I have to wonder why your NP was so far above your estimated FTP. For this race it should have been well under it.

A typical noob mistake is to charge out at too hard a pace and then spend the rest of the race struggling and wishing you were dead. I’d suggest being conservative for the first half and then finishing strong… it’s a lot more fun.

3

Hi, Sounds like you have lost a load of wieght and are still doing that so I guess its all going to get easier and faster anyway just given time. Not knowing what you train - I would say that you should do some more distance work to build up stamina. How far are you cycling on in your training and how far are you running. Yes you could go easier on the bike section and that would make your run better. You could try to just have a really chilled out race next time you do one and see how it feels. Maybe go into the next with no time goal at all but rather just to take it easy and enjoy the race (use it as a training session). In the mean time get running, it will speed up the wieght loss and improve your running. What ever you do dont get downbeat about it as it will improve!

4

Dude, don’t beat yourself up so much. You’re doing fine. Better than fine. No real advice other than to keep running. Best thing for dropping weight and you’ll get the most racing bang for your training hours “buck”. Also, work in some bricks. There are 1000 different opinions on this, but mine is that a newbie needs to teach his body how to run right off the bike. Only go 0.5 or 1 mile for a while, but do just do a little running after some of your bike workouts. Keep at it.

5

It’s not a HTFU situation man…and kudos on your fitness progression. Take it easy on yourself dude you have zero experience and are just getting started. You hardly have enough races under your belt to even know what you don’t know! Just enjoy the process and the life…

I honestly think the first year of triathlon is good for figuring out if you really like it, learning how to get pre-race jitters out of your system and get training doses of all types to see what works. Just use this year as a big learning experience and enjoy the process…have fun man…it’s all about the journey!

6

I’m going to agree with everyone else on the board.
Just keep training and watch the weight shed off.
When you lose weight it will make a great impact on the rest of the triathlon- especially the run.

I completed my first spring tri same time last year- I completed it in 1:24:xx- last week I completed it in 1:19:xx.
Am I in better shape? Yes
Have I ran/ biked/ swam more? Yes
Have I lost weight? Yes

Keep going, it all comes with time, patience and experience.

7

I agree with everyone else also. Keep the running up. Over the next year and a half-2 years I would concentrate on running. It is going to shed the pounds of the quickest. Where as if you bike you might have to bike 2 hours to get the bsame benefit as 40 minutes running. Dude you are doing good and I would keep going balls to the wall so to speak in the sprint races. Your body will know when to slow. Keep it up!!! For what its worth my first 5k I barely broke 30 minutes and first sprint tri was 1hr 30 min. two years ago the sprint went down to 1 hr 9 min. My 5k time now is 20 min. to 21 and change depending on fitness and weight. I was 212 lbs when I started down to 160 lbs now. Again great job and keep it up.

8

Can you explain a little more of why you think running sheds weight the quickest? Do you know of an article to back this up?

I always felt like long rides make me lose more weight and i recover faster / can do another one quicker. So overall, that is the best way for me to lose weight. But that’s just feel, and 3-4 hrs moderately on the bike compared to 45-1 hr of hard running, obviously will burn more calories. Maybe, I’m just taking your statement and applying it to the wrong situation. But I’m intrigued.

To the OP:

  1. Take a couple races to play around with how hard you push the bike. Say in one race you purposely under bike in hopes of improving your run. In another race over bike and just try to hold on and push through the run. I think, as others have said, with time, patience, and further reduction of weight, you’ll be stoked with the breakthroughs that are ahead of you.

  2. I’m too new with power to help here.

  3. I doubt that you need to eat more. What is your eating like in training? 200 cal/hr sounds like a lot to me for a short race like that. I think people tend to underestimate how much energy their bodies can store and use.

  4. You’ve kicked ass already. 35 lbs is no joke. Just stay focused and your goal weight will come with time. Lose the weight safely over time. A pound a week really adds up when you keep at it consistently. Just remember where you were when you started and have good people that you can turn to if your motivation gets a little low.

  5. same as number 2.

Just keep working and enjoying what your doing for yourself. Be patient, that breakthrough race is right around the corner!!

9

For me I get better fitness gains and weight loss from running. I have to bike 2-3 hours to get what it seems the same benefit as 45 min. to a hr running. With a Ag’er working with family obligations its hard to get the 2-3 hr bikes in everyday.

10

Congratulations, you made it. Being “slow” and 275 puts you miles ahead of where the 310 of you were last year. Endurance sports are one of those things where gains are usually small and incremental. There are no quick fixes, keep putting in the time. I don’t know what all of your figures mean. Running mpw is what you need.

11

I agree with all the other comments on the board. Us big guys just have to accept that we are not going to be able to match our swim and bike times on the run…I had a race last year where I was 2nd in my age group (not clydesdale) in the swim, 3rd on the bike and 16th on the run. Finished 5th overall but I beat myself up pretty good over that run time. Finally I have just accepted that I am not going to be able to put up some of the run times that my competitors do. But, I also know that I am going to improve in that area. The only advice I would offer you is yes pick up your run miles but also be careful. Don’t head out of this race and think that you have to increase your run load dramatically. You will see some initial improvements and then find yourself sitting on the couch for the next month or so recovering from overuse injuries. Build up your miles slowly and just be patient (I know how tough that is, trust me).

Good luck.

12

First off, congrats on getting out there and doing what most people, thin or over weight, don’t do. I’m in agreement with the rest, accept I will say the one thing you need to work on is the weight. Right now it is your limiter by far.

Although it is possible you fried your legs on the bike, it is more possible that you are just carrying a large load and trying to run with it. It’s hard and a lot of work and kudos to you for losing what you have.

I always use a simple equation with my athletes for calorie consumption.

1 mile of running/walking burns 100 calories
4 miles of biking burns 100 calories
400yds swimming burns 100 calories

Of course your exertion level will change the numbers a little, but as a rule of thumb, those numbers fit and work well.

Example…

Mile 20 of the marathon is 2000 calories. That just happens to be the “real halfway in the thon” or the point at which your body starts to need energy from another source.
Mile 80 of a ride is 2000 calories, or the halfway point in a century ride (Or IM).

If you use those approximate numbers to figure your calorie burn, you can work your diet to lose the weight without starving. That rule is simple too, Eat less than you use and you’ll lose weight. BTW, and easy way to figure your BMI is to put a zero at the end of your weight. So your BMI is 2750. You need to eat 2750 calories each day just to survive. (Of course that’s not right since you have a large calorie supply, but that’s your base to start from.)

2750 would be your calorie goal for the day. stay under and your gonna take the extra pounds off and watch the speed on the run increase.

Good luck and congrats on everything you have accomplished so far.

CS

13

You’re pulling around 275lbs (which certainly is a lot better than 310, congrats) … but that’s a lot of mass to get moving up and down a hilly course. You likely did overdo it on the bike trying to ride the hills like you ride the flats. I know when I race I look forward to that which I do comparatively well (the bike), and try to make up for the swim, which I pay for on the run. Your running will improve overall as your weight drops, and your running off the bike will more closely match your open runs as your fitness and pacing improve. I find I have to have a pretty high level of fitness overall to run well in a race, as I have a really hard time pacing the bike appropriately when I’m less fit. Something about my bike-ego writing checks my run-legs can’t cash!

Also, do you do any bricks in training? Getting a better handle on how you run off the bike might better inform your ride pacing and set more accurate expectations during the run.

14

Your VI is high. What kind of gearing do you have on the bike and what kind of cadence were you keeping on the uphills?

I’m thinking more gears would help you bring the AP an NP closer together, lowering your VI and saving a bit more of the legs for the run.

15

Be positive!

You have been at this for a year – you have been exercising consistently for a year. That’s your victory right there.

A bit early yet to be comparing yourself to others. Best to compete against yourself for now. What you might do is go ahead and mark last week’s race down on the calendar for next year, and see how much you can improve.

As far as the three disciplines go, train in all of them consistently, week in and week out. Then do them in increasing amounts. Then do them faster. It doesn’t get much simpler.

Good luck!

16

How do you get a VI of 1.2? That seems rediculous to me, even on a hilly course. Were you coasting for half the course and sprinting for the other half? Can you upload your power plot?

If you want to drop time lose weight. The fastest guys are around 150lbs. If you addage 2s/mile/lb is true then you are losing 4min/mile to them off the extra weight you are carrying.

17

First of all, Kudos to you on dropping all that weight! thats fantastic. Dont beat yourself up over one disappointing race result…

+1 on brick training. When I brick train, I feel everything I do in a race. My usual brick is 4 mile run, 20 mile bike, 3 mile run. (obviously it varies sometimes). I can do the 4 mile in a pretty good split, but im dead on the 3 mile. If you do this long enough, you train your legs and muscles to run off the bike, and you will notice a huge difference in how you feel on the run, which will, obviously, impact your time. :slight_smile:

hope this helps

trev

18

For starters, you seem to have gone too hard on the bike. What was your rolling average… steadily dropping? And the data indicates that your FTP is higher than you think… but assuming that you use your PM for pacing I have to wonder why your NP was so far above your estimated FTP. For this race it should have been well under it.

A typical noob mistake is to charge out at too hard a pace and then spend the rest of the race struggling and wishing you were dead. I’d suggest being conservative for the first half and then finishing strong… it’s a lot more fun.

rruff,

How do you see rolling avg in wko+? Not sure how to get that data.

And I am surprised at the diff between FTP and NP but why do you think NP should be below FTP?

thanks

jason

19

Hi, Sounds like you have lost a load of wieght and are still doing that so I guess its all going to get easier and faster anyway just given time. Not knowing what you train - I would say that you should do some more distance work to build up stamina. How far are you cycling on in your training and how far are you running. Yes you could go easier on the bike section and that would make your run better. You could try to just have a really chilled out race next time you do one and see how it feels. Maybe go into the next with no time goal at all but rather just to take it easy and enjoy the race (use it as a training session). In the mean time get running, it will speed up the wieght loss and improve your running. What ever you do dont get downbeat about it as it will improve!

Training miles:

Biking is an avg of around 200 miles a month. Ride of 20 to 40 miles.
Running is pretty low because I tend to get injured very quickly if I ramp up the run volume. Usually a max of three runs per week in the 2-3 mile range.

thx

20

Also, do you do any bricks in training? Getting a better handle on how you run off the bike might better inform your ride pacing and set more accurate expectations during the run.

i have not done many bricks. I guess this is in my future…