I live in California and I’d like to return to Europe to compete in an Ironman race (I did Germany in 2009). I’m looking for a fast course. I know Austria is extremely fast, but I know that now that they changed the course for Switzerland in 2009, it is also posting very fast times. Has anyone done Switzerland and Austria and could help? Are the hills in Switzerland bad?
The only problem with Austria is it’s difficult to get to the race location since there isn’t a major airport next to the race venue like with IM Switz being in Zurich. This makes IM Austria more expensive which is a factor.
Done both races in the last couple of years. As you said, both are fast courses, have great crowd support and have that ‘big race’ atmosphere. The swim in Austria more interesting, finishing in the canal which is a unique experience. Roads on both courses are smooth, Switzerland has a few more turns/hills, but nothing too taxing. For the run, again I’d say Austria is better, but both are pancake flat.
Klagenfurt is in the middle of nowhere, which is part of its charm. But if you’re after accessibility and things to do, it might not be the best venue for you. Either way, they’re both great races and you’ll have a great time.
I can’t compare to Austria as I’ve never done it but I did not think the hills in Switzerland were that bad. I did my fastest 56 mile bike split ever (faster than any of the HIMs I’ve done) on the first half of Switzerland so it’s defintely a fast course. I didn’t think the turns were bad at all. There are 4 hills of any note on the loop
At 30k after a long flat stretch, there is the first hill. It’s maybe half a mile long and not much of a challenge
At 52k you face what I though was the toughest hill. I think they call it “Beauty”. It’s steep, winding, and goes on for 3 miles. I was very, very glad I had a compact crank on this hill. The second time around going up this was the toughest part of the bike
After coming down the backside of that climb, you go up a gradual but VERY long climb that saps energy out of you. It goes on for 4 or 5 miles. I think they call this one “The Beast” (but I might have #2 and #3 reversed)
Finally, just before you finish the loop, there is a very short, very steep climb they call “Heartbreak Hill” with crowds cheering like mad. You feel like you are in the Tour de France here. It’s very cool. But this climb is so short it takes nothing out of you.
Also the run loop in Switzerland, though it is flat, is not as easy as it looks. Several times each loop you have to climb up over or down below the roadway and frequently you make a 180 degree turn right after. This gets very hard when you are on your 4th loop and dead tired.
The water in Switzerland is the cleanest water I’ve ever swum in.
Thanks for all the great info everyone. Does anyone know the elevation gain for either course? I’ve seen the list at the link below, but I don’t think they are accurate. Did anyone have a GPS in Switzerland or Austria to confirm elevation gain?
Sesel - Since you have done both, how much slower of a course do you think Switzerland is compared to Austria?** Are we talking a difference of 5min or 15min, I’m guessing due to the hills? **Or is it too hard to tell between the two races?
Joe, so IM switzerland bike course is easier than Timberman?
I would say yes but the problem is I’ve only done Timberman twice. Once in 2006 as my very first HIM when I was not in nearly as good bike shape – on my Trek roadie that came with a triple up front!. Then once in 2008 on the same Trek roadie only this time with a regular 53/39 crank (disaster on the hills, remember, I’m weak on the bike) and when in much worse bike shape. On a hot day! It wasn’t pretty
Even keeping that in mind, I definitely think the IM Switzerland course is easier. You have 30k flat as a pancake by the water in which you can fly. Since it’s two loops, that’s 60k fast right there. Yes some climbing but lots of other long stretches that are flat or descents. I actually got into the 11 ring on the cassette a couple of times there, something I didn’t need for a second at Mooseman and doubt I would need at Timberman.
Sesel - Since you have done both, how much slower of a course do you think Switzerland is compared to Austria?** Are we talking a difference of 5min or 15min, I’m guessing due to the hills? **Or is it too hard to tell between the two races?
It’s difficult to say exactly. The difference all comes down to the bike course. I’d guess Switzerland is around 10 minutes slower due the hills. You might want to check the Pro’s times, but bare in mind that Austria generally attracts a higher quality field.
Another thing - unless it has changed - Switzerland uses a traditional transition zone, ie. no swim/bike or bike/run bags. Everything is just placed by your bike in transition. This shouldn’t really affect your decision though.
If you’re aiming for a Kona spot, check past results to see what kind of time you need to post. The Euro AGers are seriously competitive.
Another thing - unless it has changed - Switzerland uses a traditional transition zone, ie. no swim/bike or bike/run bags. Everything is just placed by your bike in transition.
This was true last year when I did it
If you’re aiming for a Kona spot, check past results to see what kind of time you need to post. The Euro AGers are seriously competitive.
I had a friend who did 9:40 in the 40-44 age group and he wasn’t even close to qualifying.
If you’re after qualification I would go to Zurich… It’ll be ‘slightly’ easier.
If you’re after amazing organisation, atmosphere and scenery, klagenfurt is hard to beat. Accomodation and food slightly cheaper too. - go for a pension(guesthouse) rather than a hotel. The whole community are well involved in the race organisation.
The owners of the place we stayed were in charge of one of the aid stations and their son took my parents in a speed boat to watch the swim.
You won’t go wrong with either but Austria gets my vote.
I looked at the different times and except for the pro times, the overall Switzerland times are actually faster for the same overall placement. Any thoughts on this? It looks like the bike times are 5-6 min slower in Switzerland vs. Austria, but overall, the times are 5-15min faster in Switzerland vs. Austria. Any idea what could cause this? I thought it was quite odd. Below is a spreadsheet with the data.
I looked at the different times and except for the pro times, the overall Switzerland times are actually faster for the same overall placement. Any thoughts on this? It looks like the bike times are 5-6 min slower in Switzerland vs. Austria, but overall, the times are 5-15min faster in Switzerland vs. Austria. Any idea what could cause this? I thought it was quite odd. Below is a spreadsheet with the data.
Well how do the overall swim and bike splits compare? How was the weather? Last year Switzerland was great weather, perhaps a shade warm on the run but that’s it.
I can say that Lake Zurich was the best lake for a swim I can remember. Calm, clean, and cool
I update the spreadsheet with all the splits & times. I also included Ironman Germany times and splits which is considered also one of the fastest IM courses. The surprising thing is besides the pros, the finish times were faster in Switzerland than in Germany and Austria. I did IM Germany in 2009 and it was ideal conditions. It does attract high competition since it’s the European Championship, but I’m surprised that the faster AGers times are better in Switzerland than Austria & Germany.
Am I missing something? This doesn’t seem right. I can’t get more history to compare cuz Switzerland in 2008 had a 3 bike loop and was faster. The run course in Switzerland seems to be the reason it is so much quicker. Anyone that’s done these races have a good explination?
Not sure when IMCH last used the 3 loop bike course, but I did it in 08 and it was 2 loops. Both run courses are flat. IMA isn’t very shaded, so you get really hot. Both run courses well stocked with regular aid stations. Can’t speak of the shade/sun for IMCH as it was wet/cloudy all day.
IMCH is mostly shaded but there are a couple of long stretches in the sun. At least that’s how I recall it. At worst it is probably 50% shaded 50% open
The bike course in Zurich isn’t very fast and the swim is slow too, having to cross a small island on foot before the second lap. On the other hand, the transitions are faster than other ironman races I´ve done, because the transition are isn´t very large and you get to keep your stuff next to the bike. I haven’t been to Austria, but I understand the bike is very fast and not even close to 180K. The swim is also shorter than 3,8K, as far as I´ve heard. The level of competition was high enough in Zurich, I think.
The organization wasn´t so good. There were a lot of things that you sort of had to work out for yourself, nowhere was there a map of the transition area, nobody said where to put the wet suit after the swim so everyone just threw it next to the bike, etc. And the swim start was a mess, I made it on time but almost all my friends missed the start. One minute before the start the announcer ordered us to calmly swim out towards the start line and then when most were still moving towards the start line they fired us away.
Indeed, the competition is high…I did a 9:24 and was not in the top 15 in my AG…
I did see tons of drafting in '09 with very little marshalling, but in '08 the draft busters were very aggressive. I wonder if the race this year was policed properly or a draft fest…
I did see tons of drafting in '09 with very little marshalling, but in '08 the draft busters were very aggressive. I wonder if the race this year was policed properly or a draft fest…
There was drafting, for sure. The typical shit, 15-20 guys/girls riding in a line with 3 meters between. Then asses like me who try to follow the rules try and drop behind when someone overtakes have to wait while 25 people blow past in the draft of the first guy, then go in the red zone to overtake them all again and get back to the front. A friend of mine was penalized for drafting, picked at random out of a line as far as I understood. And another friend was penalized for - urinating at the side of the road
