My wife is having trouble with her toenails (the one next to big toe) turning black after longer runs (+10-15miles). Currently she is running in Hoka Clifton. Before that it has been: Hoka Bondi 3, Kinvaras, Newtons and Asics. All have given her the same issue. It seems to me that she has plenty of room in the toebox. She is thinking about trying a pair of Altra as her next pair. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. She is sick of black and missing toenails. Thanks!
I’ve gone through many different shoes and lost many nails. I think for some people it just comes with longer runs. For me, it’s really only marathons or IM’s that do in my nails (lost two from IMMT in August).
Sorry, if this isn’t helpful at all…
Birthday/Xmas gift sorted: black nail polish.
I’m assuming her long runs are on the road? I wouldn’t recommend this for running trails.
Cutting the toe box out of the shoe will eliminate the problem. Cut across the upper just forward of laces, then forward along the upper/mid-sole margin to the point of shoe. Perhaps she could experiment with an old pair to see if she likes it. Set aside the shoes primarily for long runs.
It used to be a very common modification among ultra runners back in the '80s, so much so that a New Zealand shoe company, Laser, even produced a toe-less model called the Breeze.
I have run thousands of miles in toe-less shoes. First time you take a pair of scissors to an otherwise functional pair of running shoes it’s easy to question if you really want to do it. I have subsequently performed shoe surgery on numerous pairs of fresh-from-the-box shoes without hesitation.
If the process of losing the nail isn’t painful (for most runners it’s not), many, (women included) just see it as a part of running or even a badge of honour.
I think for some people it just comes with longer runs. For me, it’s really only marathons or IM’s that do in my nails
+1
Up to an including 1/2 marathons no issue, but somewhere around 35km is enough to blacken my nails. The first one to go is same as your wife (next to the 1st piggy), but after a full IM between both feet I’ll have 2-6 black or blackish nails (and I always felt I had fairly robust feet compared to some of the horror stories I’ve read online).
Buy her shoes that are a 1/2 size bigger. The issue is that her feet are swelling more (on these longer runs) and her toenails are hitting the toebox. Her shoes are too small.
Could also try lacing the shoe starting from the 2nd or 3rd eyelets up, so its not quite as tight across the toe box.
Sometimes a shoe can be the right size, feel comfortable and otherwise fit well, except for that imperceptible and miniscule amount of repetitive pressure on a single toenail.
Shoes are made on a standard lasts, where as human feet exhibit much greater variability. One black toe nail doesn’t necessary mean a shoe is too small.
If her shoes otherwise work well for her on the more critical aspects (eg comfort and performance), I would look at tweaking what you have to find a solution before spending money different models and sizes.
The one NEXT to the big toe? I’ve never heard of that before. Does she have hammer toes? If so, I would get footbeds especially made for them. Obviously, she should also trim her toenails before going for a long run, and if she’s pounding downhill, learn more sustainable ways to navigate the terrain.
My toenails get black and fall off when I go on long (multi-day, 20+ miles/day) hikes/backpacking trips. It got so bad once that I just cut the toe box out of the shoe, like another poster suggested. That pair of hiking boots is now my favorite, and I’ll be doing the same thing with my next pair dedicated to longer-distance trips.
I had that issue when training and doing IMs every year. It was my second toe always. They are permanently changed/damaged and grow thick toenails that look odd. My toes absolutely did not touch the end of my shoes. I have short toes and fit my shoes to ball of my foot not where my toes are. I figured it had to be my toes hitting end of my socks with each stride. I tried different socks that gave more and it was slightly better but not perfect. I no longer can run due to a knee issue, but I have a constant reminder in my funny toenails of my running days.
I had similar problems in my first season of triathlon. I wore shoes that were the same size as my regular, everyday shoes. I use Nike Air Pegasus 29. I started out wearing size 8 and got a black toe (the one next to the big toe). At this point I was only doing Olympic distance tris and half marathons. I moved up to size 9 and I have never had an issue again. I am running many more miles over the season, much longer runs and races (including a full marathon (BQ time) and 3 Ironman races this season), and much quicker than I did in my first season and I have not had any problems since going up a shoe size.
As another poster suggested, half a size larger in the shoes; one thing that also helps a lot for me is to use Injinji toe socks to keep the toes from rubbing on each other. My next-to-pinky toes tend to curl under the middle toes and the toe socks keep that from happening.
+1 on injini socks.
It’s typically the height and length of the toebox that is the issue, not the width. I’m as prone to get black toenails in my Altras as my Adidas. That being said, the wide toebox on the Altras is awesome. If it didn’t make the shoe look dorky I’m sure more manufacturers would do it.
2 pairs of socks will stop that. also go for a bigger shoe size. it is obvious her feet are “swelling” and hitting the front of the toe box thus traumatizing blood vessels.
There are two likely causes:
Toenail banging on the shoe (toenail bigger than toe or shoe too small, or entire foot moves in shoe)Toenail catches on the sock, and pulls up (toenail edge not smooth, bad socks)
Neither option is normally painful unless the shoe is much too small. So you’re unlikely to notice it while running unless you pay attention.
Things that help for other people, including me:
File toenail before the run, so it doesn’t catch on the sock or shoe.
Wear two pairs of socks, inner sock moves against outer sock.Depending on (1) or (2), different socks, like toe socks, might help.
Check shoe size, toe space. Wait for the swelling to go down first.Check for foot movement in the shoe, esp. later in the run. Do you need a narrower shoe or tighter laces?
Modify shoe if necessary.
For me, (1) and (2) help against toenail problems. (3) instead of (2) also helps. (2) or (3) and chamois cream on the foot help to prevent blisters.
I have this occur more if there are a lot of down-hills or lots of hard turns. Sometimes just lacing your shoe a bit tighter can keep your heel pulled back in the shoe which of course, keeps your toes back away from the front of the shoe.
you didn’t say if she’s in any pain or not.
she’s sick of the black and missing toenails, which is up to her… i usually have something goign on with at least one of my toenails. i only mind if it hurts. which it very rarely does - usually only when i cut it too short.
i never cared about how my toenails looked before i started running, i guess that helps.
Buy her shoes that are a 1/2 size bigger. The issue is that her feet are swelling more (on these longer runs) and her toenails are hitting the toebox. Her shoes are too small.
This. I was fine running short distances in shoes that fit “fine”, but definitely need the extra room (length) for longer runs over 2 hours.
I don’t think it’s an issue of not having room in the toe box or socks. I’ve never had one until IMMT this year. Not being used to running uphill/downhill was the cause for me… My doctor said that blood is pooling under the nail from all the pounding and blood vessels get damaged and a hematoma is formed… the pressure pushes the nail out and dislodges is from the nail bed. Mine got black, then infected and I had it removed - it was really just hanging there by a 2mm section of skin. In two days I was back to running.
Cant believe we got this far without disgusting pictures. Here’s my toe a couple hours after IMWI. Its completely black now.
My shoes fit just fine, have plenty of toe room. Up to 16 miles I usually don’t have an issue, but after that I form the blister on the inside of my toe (next to the big toe) and then it spreads to the front of the toe. Same thing on my other foot, but this time it stayed next to the big toe and didnt creep to the front.
Long story short - my toes just naturally rub and after a while I get these and lose the nail only on this toe. It has happened with every pair of shoes I’ve had including Mizuno, Asics, Saucony, Zoots and now New Balance.
I’ve lost the fourth toenail twice, same foot, different brands of shoe, so I figure it has more to do with my foot mechanics.
Going up a half-size did help. Also a Google search for “different ways to lace running shoes” will turn up a few options to give more room in the toe box.
Don’t let her make the mistake I did before my first marathon: My toenail fell off between my last long run and my race. It didn’t even occur to me that the nail bed without the toenail protection is very sensitive… until I started running. I felt that sucker all 26.2. If it does fall off just put a Band-Aid on it before the race.
I’ve had issues with certain pairs of socks being too small. Same shoes, but different socks give me problems. Before cutting up shoes, maybe try looser socks.