I’m thinking about switching to clincher race wheels for the next season. I’m looking mostly at HED and Zipp and with Zipp’s new Firecrest wheels the aerodynamics are (according to Zipp) equal between the tubular and clincher version. This makes it easier to judge the aerodynamics from independent tests, as then it doesn’t matter which version they have tested (I know the tire can make a difference, though).
I have seen both independent tests of the Stinger 9 and Jet 9 and would be interested to know, how these two stack up against each other. I don’t think the shapes are identical, but I could be wrong. Another thing is, that it is very hard to figure out when HED is making changes to the rim shape, making it even harder to try and find out which version is tested in a test.
To give an example: In the Tour test from earlier this year, the 808 Firecrest Clincher tested clearly better than the Jet 9. In Bontrager’s whitepaper on their new D3 wheels, the Stinger 9 did better than the 808 Firecrest Tubular. Is this because of difference testing methods, a difference between Jet 9 and Stinger 9, or the tire (or something completely else)?
The Jet9 and Stinger9 use different shapes. The Stinger is up to 26mm wide while the Jet is 23mm.
I was torn apart between 808CC and Jet9 myself. In the end I bought the 808CC.
Mainly because I found a good deal on it, and I know it sounds silly, but if I had “settled” for the HEDs I would always be thinking “what if…”.
I think you can’t go wrong with both wheels. And I am pretty sure if you rode both, you wouldn’t feel a difference aero-wise. But If you can afford it, buy the faster one.
the jets and stingers are not the same shape, the jet has a flat metal brake track and the stinger is all carbon and the braking area is part of the shape (just like older zipp tubies and new zipp clinchers and tubies)
the jet is also a fairing so the spokes enter through holes in the fairing along the side, rather than straight into the inside of the rim.
the stinger ‘should’ be a little faster…BUT…you can run a 19mm tire on the Jet, and you can’t go lower than 22mm on the stinger without voiding your warranty.
so…
oh and the stinger is good bit lighter, might have saved me a few seconds at savageman but I wanted the metal braking surface so I had less chance of dying =)
The HED 2012 catalogue make it seem like the Stinger 9 is wider, but I know the marketing department at HED is not always the best at communicating technical and probably seemingly small differences between wheels…
I was thinking of using the Continental GP SuperSonic 20mm on the Jet, so maybe it is faster than the Stinger with a 22mm tire? Who knows…
I’m actually debatting between the Jet 9, 808 FC clincher and the H3 clincher. I believe I will see low yaw in most races, hence I think the H3 will probably be a hair faster than the two other wheels most of the time, but on the occasional windy race the 808 FC might be at a decent advantage. If the Jet 9 hasn’t got nearly the same advantage, I might as well go with the H3 if I’m going with the cheaper HED wheels - and also getting the aluminum brake tracks, which are nice for wet conditions and because of the lack of need to switch brake pads.
I don’t disagree the stinger might be wider, I was just trying to point out that the jet is not 23mm at it’s widest. maybe the 23 and 26 referred to the brake track. It was unclear to me.
hard to find 19mm tires for the H3, now that the Bonty TT is no more.
hard to find 19mm tires for the H3, now that the Bonty TT is no more.
Much like athletic shoes, I’ve found that once one finds a good model, it’s a good idea to buy a couple and save them for later
It’s funny, I first did that with MTB tires. I’m a big fan of the Panaracer Dart/Smoke combo, and when they “went out of print” a long time ago I stocked up on a small supply. I guess I wasn’t the only one though, since Panaracer eventually reintroduced the tires as the “Dart Classic” and “Smoke Classic” and still sell them to this day…and to think that tire was first introduced in the early 90s (if not late 80s!)
Unfortunately, I don’t think that the narrow Bonty TT will see the same fate due to the wide wheel trend…that said, a 20C Conti SuperSonic “Black Chili” isn’t a bad fallback for an H3.
How is the durability on the conti supersonic compared to the bonty rxl pro (discontinued wtf)? according to afm, it looks like the 23mm ss is the lowest rr clincher on the market
How is the durability on the conti supersonic compared to the bonty rxl pro (discontinued wtf)? according to afm, it looks like the 23mm ss is the lowest rr clincher on the market
Dunno…but the RXL Pro was pretty good for me. I’m not sure if I’d use the 23C SS as a rear tire though…using a SS on the front should be OK though (since a slightly less “robust” tire on the front is acceptable) .
From what I’ve read the they are thin and not that durable in terms of milage, but they should be fine (for that thin a tire) with regards to cuts and puctures.
When racing technical TT’s it’s always nice to have good brakes, but not having to bother with changing brake pads might be the biggest advantage in that regard.
As Tom pointed out, the SuperSonic 20mm with Black Chili should be a pretty good fit aero-wise (and Crr-wise) to the H3.
I just inspect and try to brush clean the carbon pads when changing between the two. If i start to notice xtra wear on the rim, I may stop that habit and just change the pads. It doesn’t take that long on the front(where I have different braking surface wheels)
You would choose the Jet 9 because it is clincher?
It seems like there is a difference of about 3-4 watt between the Jet 9 and the 808 FC at pretty much every yaw angle according to that Tour test. I wonder if the results would have been difference if they had used 20mm or 21mm tires - AFAIK they used the 23mm Continental GP4000S. I read someone on here said 23mm tyres bulge out on the Jet 9. Of course, that could also be the case for the 808 FC…
